Frustrated!!!!!!!!!!

[n8ivetxn]

Very good suggestion. I need to remember that in case I have an incident in the future...

 

[dretd]

But seriously, dude does not need to be selling chickens. I do understand that SF's can be feather sexed but he had no idea what he was looking for "females have dark brownish black and males a more grayish black" he said. On what planet? I know better now but now is too late. :/

AND

Nasal discharge is thick and yellow and indicative of infection per my vet.

Thermometer reads 84-86 degrees consistently which is on target for 2 wk old chicks after I modified it. (Breeder gave me a set up with a 60 watt light bulb that ran about 74 degrees with light as close as I could get it.)

mobility... they get up and eat, and drink. I don't have enough knowledge to know how much is normal. Original chick with symptoms, Sneezy she is called now, became very lethargic, I dropper fed her water with antibiotics and hand rearing formula for lovebirds for a day and she perked right up.

Their poop was runny until I switched to medicated starter which they were not on.

Hope that clears a few details.

I would try to focus on doing what you can at this point to get these guys through. Good thinking to change the feed to medicated although not sure how this will work with the antibiotics they are already on. You should let us know what they are, that would really help. Did the vet physically look at the chicks or just give advice over the phone? How are you dosing them? I like to give pro-biotics to chickens when they are on antibiotics. Perhaps your vet can get you hooked up with one. I also like to use a gram scale to record the weights of my chicks at least daily or more if they are sick. This way you can make sure they are eating and gaining. Sometimes you can catch things a little earlier if you have this data plus it makes calculating the doses of any antibiotics they are on easier as they grow--eliminates the guess work.

Two concerns I have about your set-up from the get-go are the heating and ventilation.

The chicks should be at 95 deg week one, 90 deg week 2 and 85 deg week three. If you have to put a heating pad under the brooder then the whole brooder is heated uniformly-not necessarily a good thing . It would be better to have radiant heat from the top so there is variable temps so the chicks can find their own sweet spot. Replace the 60 watt bulb. I use a 250 watt red heat lamp hovered over or angle into the brooder and use an infrared heat gauge (the kind that has a laser pointer so you know the temp where you aim it) to monitor temps. The IR is great because you can beam it around the brooder and understand the temperature range in your brooder.

The second thing that concerns me is the ventilation. If you have the room closed up tight then there may not be enough fresh air exchange and the respiratory system may get stressed. Remember these guys aren't tropical birds. Unfortunately you are now between a rock and a hard place because if they have a bacterial infection they may need to be kept warmer than is recommended at that may necessitate less air flow, but I really think this is a key problem for your guys, from your description.

As for the Faverolles, did the guy represent them as show quality birds? I think that because you are stressed and unhappy you may be demonizing the breeder. Understandable under the circumstances. His feather sexing technique may be quite accurate for his flock (grey black for the boys and brown black for the girls). You asked what planet this works, and well, I would tell you this one.

If you could get back with us with more info or maybe even photos of your chicks, that would be immensely helpful! Good luck and good for you for helping these little guys out.

 

[n8ivetxn]

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. What does it matter if the breeder advertised them as SQ or PQ? Illness doesn't discriminate. She's not complaining about the quality of the chicks, just their health (or lack thereof).

Not trying to be snotty, I just want to understand....

 

[linkedsilas]

After doing my research I agree with the poster above about the temperature.
Make sure you wash your hands before you handle the parrots. I talked to my avian vet about it and he said he wasnt too worried but to make sure I did wash my hands and be sure to keep "chicken" shoes in chicken areas.

 

[bird-brain]

I would try to focus on doing what you can at this point to get these guys through. Good thinking to change the feed to medicated although not sure how this will work with the antibiotics they are already on. You should let us know what they are, that would really help. Did the vet physically look at the chicks or just give advice over the phone? vet saw the sickest chick. How are you dosing them? Tetracycline. Dosing is done via the manufacturers recommendation for acute respiratory illness which is not consistent with the package directions, it is one tbls per gallon. Using tetracycline because the only avian vet on duty will not give ATB without doing lab work, does jugular draws and killed one of my lovies that way and I still had to pay the $575.00 lab bill on my dead bird. Vet did however give me the dosing for the OTC antibiotic. So I am sort of up the creek regarding the vet as well. I like to give pro-biotics to chickens when they are on antibiotics. Me too I always have them on hand but generally administer after short course therapy rather than during as mine are water soluble. Perhaps your vet can get you hooked up with one. I also like to use a gram scale to record the weights of my chicks at least daily or more if they are sick. I do have a gram scale, though have not been able to find breed specific weights for chicks this age. If someone has a good ball park I would appreciate it. This way you can make sure they are eating and gaining. Sometimes you can catch things a little earlier if you have this data plus it makes calculating the doses of any antibiotics they are on easier as they grow--eliminates the guess work.

Two concerns I have about your set-up from the get-go are the heating and ventilation.

The chicks should be at 95 deg week one, 90 deg week 2 and 85 deg week three. If you have to put a heating pad under the brooder then the whole brooder is heated uniformly-not necessarily a good thing . It would be better to have radiant heat from the top so there is variable temps so the chicks can find their own sweet spot. Replace the 60 watt bulb. I use a 250 watt red heat lamp hovered over or angle into the brooder and use an infrared heat gauge (the kind that has a laser pointer so you know the temp where you aim it) to monitor temps. The IR is great because you can beam it around the brooder and understand the temperature range in your brooder. The chart I consulted listed 85 degrees for chicks 2-3 weeks.( birth to 1 wk 95, 1-2 90, 2-3 85 etc. you get the picture.) I did raise it back to 90 due to illness but can take it up with that is advisable. The heating pad is under only one side of the brooder and right now the chicks sleep next to but not ON it. Kind of in the temperate zone. My reading indicates that to indicate they are comfortable. Please if I am wrong let me know. I was told this brooder set up was fool proof so I am having to check temps the old fashioned way but I do have better equipment ordered. That's just the best I can do right now.

The second thing that concerns me is the ventilation. If you have the room closed up tight then there may not be enough fresh air exchange and the respiratory system may get stressed. Remember these guys aren't tropical birds. Unfortunately you are now between a rock and a hard place because if they have a bacterial infection they may need to be kept warmer than is recommended at that may necessitate less air flow, but I really think this is a key problem for your guys, from your description. Thought about it, but it's about the only place I can control draft etc with certainty other than in the bird room and that isn't happening. I will say that I did put them in the sunshine twice before my little one died and they seemed to do very well. Ran and played and tried to fly and chased bugs with fervor. Maybe more outside time? In proper weather of course.

As for the Faverolles, did the guy represent them as show quality birds? I think that because you are stressed and unhappy you may be demonizing the breeder. Understandable under the circumstances. His feather sexing technique may be quite accurate for his flock (grey black for the boys and brown black for the girls). You asked what planet this works, and well, I would tell you this one.


First let me clarify that I understand not every animal is born show quality and still make wonderful pets and in the case of chickens great layers/meat birds. My issue is not with the quality of feathering or body shape but with the early health issues and the fact that he built my brooder and represented it as more than adequate. He started to tell me what to do if they seemed cold and then said "oh never mind, I built your brooder you won't need to worry about anything.". I also take issue with his obvious lack of knowledge regarding respiratory disease in an animal he sells for a living.

As far as the sexing, I left out a lot of detail about how that went that down but for the sake of clarity I will elaborate. He could not tell the difference in the feathering after multiple attempts with different lighting so he attempted to sex via pelvic bones ( I hope that's enough said about that) then told me it could be done by who had the squishier butts but was unable to tell any difference there either and finally held them in the air to see who fought the most cuz that would be the roo. Birds can be hard to sex. I DNA sex my psittacines because otherwise it's just a guess. My hang up is not that he COULDN'T but that he pretended he could. I am demonizing him yes because I am upset about my poor sick chicks but also because I tend to hold people to the same standard I hold myself. I do not, will not misrepresent my animals or my knowledge concerning them ever, period. And because he did I have helpless chicks who are potentially suffering, may end up with enormous vet bills (nothing new there I have horses) and am out money for the chicks themselves as well as a brooder.

If you could get back with us with more info or maybe even photos of your chicks, that would be immensely helpful! Good luck and good for you for helping these little guys out.

Will post some pics soon. THANK YOU all so much for your suggestions. Hope that clarifies things a bit. Also want to be sure I was clear that the chick that died was the only one without respiratory symptoms of any kind. He/she was the one the breeder bruised his rear end very badly trying to sex him. But doubt that was the cause.

 

[bird-brain]

The last one is Sneezy. Her runny nose IS improving and her/his nares are much less swollen now. They are all supposed to be 3 weeks old in the next day or so. Thanks!

 

[bird-brain]

I thought I would post this update. My largest chick, the one in the first picture has taken a turn for the worse. Very lethargic, off feed and water, wont pick her head up at loud sounds that send the rest scurrying. Just lays there limp like a dish rag. There are mild crackles in her lungs when I listen with my stethoscope but she is so tiny I can't tell if they are through out or isolated. I am giving her water with electrolytes and a vitamin/supplement and antibiotic with a small syringe and ma managing about 1/2 ml every half hour. I am trying and having minor success with getting a little hand raising formula, mashed warm chick starter, moistened egg food and even yogurt in her beak but the amounts are microscopic. For added warmth, I am doing that parrot fid mom thing of putting uncooked rice in clean socks and microwaving them for about 15 seconds. I let them cool down to about 100 degrees and build a bunker around her with them. (the rice does not heat evenly and you have to be very careful to cool it evenly if you are going to let the bird touch them.) She actually seems comforted by her warm nest and I am scooping them up with her when I take her out to nourish her. The lights have kept the rice pretty warm but you have to turn them periodically.

I am chronicling this in case it works. I am not hopeful. But maybe if I click my heals together three times and say "I DO believe in faeries" it will help.

 

[sumi]

Hope she's going to be o.k.

 

[n8ivetxn]

They look like pullets to me. Sometimes they have a little black on the wing tips. The boys will have black further up on the wings, toward the "shoulder".....

They look good in the pictures, I mean they don't look ill..... I hope the little fluffy butts recover.

 

[dretd]

I thought I would post this update. My largest chick, the one in the first picture has taken a turn for the worse. Very lethargic, off feed and water, wont pick her head up at loud sounds that send the rest scurrying. Just lays there limp like a dish rag. There are mild crackles in her lungs when I listen with my stethoscope but she is so tiny I can't tell if they are through out or isolated. I am giving her water with electrolytes and a vitamin/supplement and antibiotic with a small syringe and ma managing about 1/2 ml every half hour. I am trying and having minor success with getting a little hand raising formula, mashed warm chick starter, moistened egg food and even yogurt in her beak but the amounts are microscopic. For added warmth, I am doing that parrot fid mom thing of putting uncooked rice in clean socks and microwaving them for about 15 seconds. I let them cool down to about 100 degrees and build a bunker around her with them. (the rice does not heat evenly and you have to be very careful to cool it evenly if you are going to let the bird touch them.) She actually seems comforted by her warm nest and I am scooping them up with her when I take her out to nourish her. The lights have kept the rice pretty warm but you have to turn them periodically.

I am chronicling this in case it works. I am not hopeful. But maybe if I click my heals together three times and say "I DO believe in faeries" it will help.

I am so sorry to hear that and I hope she perked back up. Certainly doesn't sound good for you. I hope you are getting some sleep!

And thank you for your clarifications on all of my questions earlier. The breeder does sound like he is a schmuck after trying to sex by the pelvic bones?! Not heard that one but I have seen folks at the feed store swear they can vent sex the chicks by the shape of the vent on the straight run chicks--I guess they will be right 50% of the time anyway. They were 100% wrong on the one they tried to help my friend with.

As for the weights, I have no idea any of the breed standards, but what I do know is that each chick should gain weight every day. If you write down the weights of each chick then you can see if one is gaining less than the others and you may be able to pick up a problem earlier that way, or track progress in some objective way.

I guess I would be most concerned about dehydration so I would continue attempting to dropper in some water and I personally would be inclined to put a little sugar in it since she might be getting a low blood sugar that will compound her lethargy. Do remember that the trachea is right at the base of the tongue and doesn't have a stopper (epiglottis) over it like mammals do so continue to go far back and slow so the fluids don't go down the wrong way.

At his point it is going to come down to good nursing care for these guys and the luck of the Faeries to make them right.