Gaggle of Geese Lovers

[Sondraa]

Exactly!

Less lethal strains of hpai have been known to protect birds from the more lethal strain, however live strains like this are dangerous as they are coronaviruses which mutate and exchange dna with each other readily, so todays beneficial strain may be tomorrows pandemic.

The EU has an avian vaccine for domestic flocks, but the USDA has only began developing a vaccine as of last year.
The USDA has never considered the lives of poultry of high importance, instead focusing on culling to limit the chance of human transmission, hence their apathy towards developing a vaccine, however this is a poor strategy.

Wild bird populations pose less of a zoonotic risk compared to domestic poultry, backyard flocks are theoretically a higher risk except owners are quicker to notice a problem, quarantine, and treat “if it’s treatable” when it arises compared to commercial flocks where a disease is already rampant by the time an issue is discovered. It makes more sense to vaccinate commercial and backyard flocks rather than repeatedly cull because it’s pointless now that the virus more or less endemic everywhere.
We can’t keep culling and repopulating, it doesn’t work.

I would go a step further..it's not just the USDA that under values poultry... it's the wider medical community as well. Try to find a vet willing to assist a pet chicken/goose/duck. It's very disappointing.

 

[Goosebaby]

I would go a step further..it's not just the USDA that under values poultry... it's the wider medical community as well. Try to find a vet willing to assist a pet chicken/goose/duck. It's very disappointing.

No need to tell me, I have my own horror stories involving trying to find a vet.

 

[Sondraa]

I think all poultry owners do. It's unacceptable. What do you think.could be done to change this situation?

 

[Goosebaby]

I think all poultry owners do. It's unacceptable. What do you think.could be done to change this situation?

The issue is the disappearance of farm vets. Poultry are considered exotics but most exotic vets are more aquatinted with parrots and not “poultry.” Avian medicine itself is like the dark ages of medicine compared to veterinary knowledge for cats and dogs, and popularity dictates the level of interest in research, so exotic birds and chickens are much better studied compared to waterfowl.

The root of the problem lies with veterinary colleges and universities. Rural people have always been more likely to end up as farm vets, but colleges and universities see them as a bad investment so they’re less likely to receive grants.
They see that rural kids can’t afford to commute, can’t always afford to move to big cities and leave their family farms or jobs behind for 4+ years, whereas those from the cities don’t have to sacrifice as much and are more likely to stick it out.
People from the cities are more likely to choose an easier line of work. Showing up 9 to 5, treating cats and dogs is straightforward easy money. Choosing to get up at 3am and drive for hours out to a mud pit to help a cow with a breached calf takes a different kind of person, then add student debt to that and add on an overwhelming heap of stress from the fact that you may be the only farm vet within six counties with countless residents in need of your help and choosing to stay in the city with a small animal practice becomes hard to resist.

I wish I knew a way to convince colleges of the importance in training farm vets, as it is now with most farm vets being retired or passed away we’re already entering an era where there is no one to rely on.

 

[Chicken poppy]

The issue is the disappearance of farm vets. Poultry are considered exotics but most exotic vets are more aquatinted with parrots and not “poultry.” Avian medicine itself is like the dark ages of medicine compared to veterinary knowledge for cats and dogs, and popularity dictates the level of interest in research, so exotic birds and chickens are much better studied compared to waterfowl.

The root of the problem lies with veterinary colleges and universities. Rural people have always been more likely to end up as farm vets, but colleges and universities see them as a bad investment so they’re less likely to receive grants.
They see that rural kids can’t afford to commute, can’t always afford to move to big cities and leave their family farms or jobs behind for 4+ years, whereas those from the cities don’t have to sacrifice as much and are more likely to stick it out.
People from the cities are more likely to choose an easier line of work. Showing up 9 to 5, treating cats and dogs is straightforward easy money. Choosing to get up at 3am and drive for hours out to a mud pit to help a cow with a breached calf takes a different kind of person, then add student debt to that and add on an overwhelming heap of stress from the fact that you may be the only farm vet within six counties with countless residents in need of your help and choosing to stay in the city with a small animal practice becomes hard to resist.

I wish I knew a way to convince colleges of the importance in training farm vets, as it is now with most farm vets being retired or passed away we’re already entering an era where there is no one to rely on.

I love how your post is talking about how many farm vets go under appreciated, and that they’re difficult to find. However I think the last thing we want to do is compare vets hard work. I think in any form of being a vet, there isn’t really “straightforward easy money” I felt like some of what you were saying depends on the situation, since I know a lot of standard vets who also face a similar situation.

I’m not disagreeing with what you’re saying, I just wanted to mention that. We could all benefit with some more farm vets around.

 

[Sondraa]

I might be totally out of line here but...I keep reading posts about poultry dying because they get an infection and can't see a vet to get a good antibiotic until the animal is long since dead if they are lucky enough to have a vet that will see them at all. I don't disagree with anything either of you are saying. I agree completely but I also feel like a standard vet could do their best in a difficult circumstance. Take our call...let us bring our birds in.... I guess that is what I would like to see minimally. Call me crazy.

 

[Somewhere_In_The_Clouds]

I might be totally out of line here but...I keep reading posts about poultry dying because they get an infection and can't see a vet to get a good antibiotic until the animal is long since dead if they are lucky enough to have a vet that will see them at all. I don't disagree with anything either of you are saying. I agree completely but I also feel like a standard vet could do their best in a difficult circumstance. Take our call...let us bring our birds in.... I guess that is what I would like to see minimally. Call me crazy.

Not crazy
I actually work in a vet clinic and I totally get what you're saying. It always confuses me when I read stories about vets turning away animals. I get that lot of vets only know certain species, things like avians are completely different to dogs and cats. But I've also yet to see a species my clinic has turned away. Yes, they know their limits, they will likely try their best to refer to specialist but they still will see the animal, or at the least have a chat to you. They treats pets like dogs and cats, they see pocket pets (rabbits/guinea pigs/ferrets), they treat livestock of a wide variety, they'll also be a stopping point for wildlife (birds, marsupials, reptiles, etc) and yes they will see pet birds. The care they can provide is always limited as they're not equipped to treat them, something that can simply be not having certain medications in the correct concentration, but I've seen multiple chickens came through our clinic and my vet's have seen my budgies on several occasions for me.
It really comes down to the individual practices and their vets and their confidence in their abilities or knowledges. All vets are not equal in knowledge, skill or experience.
The wait time for seeing a vet is sometimes completely out of the control of the vets themselves. It's an insanely busy industry, there's constantly emergencies and a number at a time and they do their best but they're only human

 

[Sondraa]

I hear you. Your clinic sounds great, by the way.

 

[Amer]

I go to a school where a LARGE portion of the students are majoring in pre vet and only a small portion of them will actually get into vet school because not everyone can be a vet. A lot of these students are studying to be farm vets. So I don't see the problem there. Except no one cares about poultry.

I brought a bird to an avian vet ONCE years ago and basically the answer was. "Your bird is sick and the only way to know what it is is to send a dead bird to state to get lab tested, it will be a zillion dollars though, try using this medicine for your birds."
But knowing whatever virus it had wasn't going to solve the problem, and medicine can only treat the symptoms.
That's when I learned the best cure is the chop.
It was traumatizing for a child like me but I culled any and all birds that showed signs of sickness (and we already had a large flock at that point.)
I can say that my flock is disease free now.
But it's definitely something I wish I knew back before I took my bird to the vet.

 

[Goosebaby]

I might be totally out of line here but...I keep reading posts about poultry dying because they get an infection and can't see a vet to get a good antibiotic until the animal is long since dead if they are lucky enough to have a vet that will see them at all. I don't disagree with anything either of you are saying. I agree completely but I also feel like a standard vet could do their best in a difficult circumstance. Take our call...let us bring our birds in.... I guess that is what I would like to see minimally. Call me crazy.

Unfortunately none in my area will see birds at all. They say it’s policy unless they have a trained exotics vet, which none of them are. I have an awesome vet vet that does see geese but she’s several hours away and getting in is very hard because she has a lot of clients.

One of the three worst I’ve dealt with was VCA because they first told me they do see waterfowl all the time and their exotic vet on staff was experienced in treating waterfowl, domestic and wild, so I scheduled an appointment for my gander who was sick at the time, drove an hour to get there, was told on arrival that they don’t see birds of any kind and they assumed that I was scheduling an appointment for a dog named Parsnip, goose, and waterfowl? Like what? and that their exotic vet doesn’t see waterfowl but if I stuck around for four hours they could ask see if he’d squeeze me in when he comes in for his shift….and I’d have to pay an after hours fee.

The other worst “Dr. D” was the reason I’m now one of the fish antibiotics tribe and just treat my birds at home when I can’t get an appointment with Dr. Smith.
Dr. D did see poultry but wasn’t experienced with them, which for me isn’t an issue if they’re honest about it, she was not honest about it. She also lied about a number of other things, thought my gander had giardia but wasn’t sure, tried charging me $900 for SMZTMP, refused to call it in to Walgreens across the street from her “where it was $17 at the time,” and ghosted me when I wouldn’t pay $900, then I found out that SMZTMP doesn’t even treat Giardia anyway.

The all time worst vet had nothing to do with birds, so it isn’t really relevant but she was seeing my parent’s dog. Before this I hadn’t really had any negative encounters with cat and dog vets and none since thankfully. There’s too much to unpack with this one but the highlight of the day was when an elderly woman came in with her dog that suffered from some kind of epilepsy and it started seizing in the waiting room on arrival, the vet tech called for the vet and she came in, saw the dog seizing and started screaming at the owner “YOU NEED TO GET THIS DOG TO A VETERINARIAN.”