Gander Developing Aggression

[Goose_Willis]

i agree to never turn your back. You can walk slowly sideways, but keep eye contact.

i also use a pool noodle to herd them when i need to.
geese do not forget anything ever. If you kick them, “thrash” them (whatever that means i’m not exactly sure) they will remember, & they won’t trust you. without trust it’s hard to have a peaceful relationship.
@Miss Lydia

I like the pool noodle idea, the bright colours are probably hard for them to miss since their colour vision is super good. I have mine trained pretty well with my stick, I just hadn't been bringing it out because I didn't think it was something I needed out there with me every second of the day.

I hold the stick horizontally in front of my body and walk a few feet behind them ad say "let's go" if I want to move them. They know if the stick shows up in their peripheral vision that I want them to move away from it (if you see it on your left, move to the right, etc). If the stick suddenly shows up in front of them, it means I want them to stop and turn back to me (it has a hook at the top, I use the hooked end to push their personal space bubble around in a circle. If I stop and call out and change the stick from horizontal to vertical, they stop and graze the area we're in.

If I stand still and tap the stick on the ground and call out for them, they come when I call them most of the time (or they look at me from across the field and laugh).

If I walk through my field with the stick and they see me walking with purpose, they come running after me because they've associated the stick with showing them where the good grass is and leading them to water or treats.

My Gander also knows that getting behind me when I'm holding the stick is useless because the stick can show up anywhere to gently push him in a different direction without my hands getting in his bite zone.

I also use the stick to scoot him off of the ducks when he catches them because if I try to pick him up off the duck without scooting him away first, he won't let go of the duck and will hold it in his beak even after I have him in the air.

I agree with not kicking them, it's likely they wouldn't even understand why you're being so rough or they'd take it as a challenge.

I did scoot him away from my body using my foot yesterday and keep him at a 'leg's distance' using my foot to block him from getting close to me because grabbing him when he was full on attacking me wasn't an option in the moment but I wouldn't call it a kick. Scooting him really just accomplished keeping his attention on attacking my boot instead of jumping up to get me in the face (which wouldn't be a very big jump for him, he's already up to my waist).

 

[Jenbirdee]

I like the pool noodle idea, the bright colours are probably hard for them to miss since their colour vision is super good. I have mine trained pretty well with my stick, I just hadn't been bringing it out because I didn't think it was something I needed out there with me every second of the day.

I hold the stick horizontally in front of my body and walk a few feet behind them ad say "let's go" if I want to move them. They know if the stick shows up in their peripheral vision that I want them to move away from it (if you see it on your left, move to the right, etc). If the stick suddenly shows up in front of them, it means I want them to stop and turn back to me (it has a hook at the top, I use the hooked end to push their personal space bubble around in a circle. If I stop and call out and change the stick from horizontal to vertical, they stop and graze the area we're in.

If I stand still and tap the stick on the ground and call out for them, they come when I call them most of the time (or they look at me from across the field and laugh).

If I walk through my field with the stick and they see me walking with purpose, they come running after me because they've associated the stick with showing them where the good grass is and leading them to water or treats.

My Gander also knows that getting behind me when I'm holding the stick is useless because the stick can show up anywhere to gently push him in a different direction without my hands getting in his bite zone.

I also use the stick to scoot him off of the ducks when he catches them because if I try to pick him up off the duck without scooting him away first, he won't let go of the duck and will hold it in his beak even after I have him in the air.

I agree with not kicking them, it's likely they wouldn't even understand why you're being so rough or they'd take it as a challenge.

I did scoot him away from my body using my foot yesterday and keep him at a 'leg's distance' using my foot to block him from getting close to me because grabbing him when he was full on attacking me wasn't an option in the moment but I wouldn't call it a kick. Scooting him really just accomplished keeping his attention on attacking my boot instead of jumping up to get me in the face (which wouldn't be a very big jump for him, he's already up to my waist).

that’s awesome how much they’ve learned just from how you use the stick!
I learned the hard way that even a gentle scoot away with the boot to them means you are escalating the fight so they just get meaner lol they think we want to fight lol

 

[Goose_Willis]

that’s awesome how much they’ve learned just from how you use the stick!
I learned the hard way that even a gentle scoot away with the boot to them means you are escalating the fight so they just get meaner lol they think we want to fight lol

That was definitely the response the boot scoot seemed to elicit.

 

[Jenbirdee]

That was definitely the response the boot scoot seemed to elicit.

lol yeah and they’re even happy about it. I think they respect us more when they think that we want to fight , we never run away, we must work to maintain our Alpha position .. I think if you don’t give up and continue to either pick him up or pin him to the ground like you’ve done (which I have a few times done also) I think eventually he should get the idea through his thick little head that it’s pointless to continue trying to be the alpha. my gander needs reminding a couple times a year.
then i bring out the lettuce to show him that I still love him and everybody’s happy

 

[Goose_Willis]

lol yeah and they’re even happy about it. I think they respect us more when they think that we want to fight , we never run away, we must work to maintain our Alpha position .. I think if you don’t give up and continue to either pick him up or pin him to the ground like you’ve done (which I have a few times done also) I think eventually he should get the idea through his thick little head that it’s pointless to continue trying to be the alpha. my gander needs reminding a couple times a year.
then i bring out the lettuce to show him that I still love him and everybody’s happy

Thanks, I'll give it a try. Hopefully he's open to the idea of letting me continue to be top goose lol.

 

[Goosebaby]

I was doing that with him and I thought it was working; I usually pick them up and carry them under my arm in a football hold after I break up their squabbles with the ducks or the other animals. I picked him up last week after he rushed me while I was petting the dog and he bit me in the face and when I pushed his head away and said no he went for round two and bit me on the nip so I put him on his belly on the ground and held him there with his head down for a minute like what I've been taught to do with roosters and I spread put my arms and puffed up my chest and told him to 'git' after I let him up but after today's display I'm not sure if the message hit home for him.

Yeah that’s where the mistake was made, crouching next to an aggressive hormonal gander, even if you’re pinning him down reduces your body size in his eyes and turns you into what he thinks is a beatable adversary. That’s why I pick mine up and carry them around, it establishes who really has the power.

He’s definitely hormonal, it can start in late fall, by winter it’s in full swing, it can last through spring, sometimes it depends on the goose but usually hormones spike up when the sunlight is fading and it’s getting cooler, and it starts dissipating when the season shifts back into the warmer months of spring. I don’t know if it’s true for all geese but mine are especially spicy on the coldest days.

The other reason it’s not quite working on your end is because that’s normal, there isn’t a one time quick fix to the problem. He’s hormonal and hormonal aggressive ganders need repeated reminding, sometimes daily, they can’t help it, their brain is kinda scrambled in breeding season. It isn’t necessarily personal either, they‘ll flip out on everything, including inanimate objects.

Though they can’t help it they are still capable of learning and after a getting picked up a few times they do make an attempt to control themselves and learn that if they don’t back off when told “NO!“ they’re going to be emasculated and scooped up and carried around.

It might seem strange but offering him a treat afterwards can teach him that though you’re the undisputed boss you’re also his friend and that can persuade him to be more friendly. I definitely encourage doing that because even though this isn’t his normal state of being through the year it can set him up for how he perceives you the rest of the year.

The cackling girls are also half the problem. There is no gander that can resist the cry for war, which is what the girls are doing. They’re egging him on and it has an extreme affect on his emotional state. Gander brains turn into enraged goo when they hear that.

Not every gander is aggressive, a lot of it comes from personality and how they were raised. My ganders that I raised like puppies and have spent a lot of time with aren’t aggressive towards me in breeding season, they’ll even scold the girls if they cackle at me.
The ones I’ve been less hands on with and don’t spend as much time with are aggressive to me to varying extents. Two of them I’ll have to pick up once every other week at most, the most aggressive was usually every day to every other day with multiple reminding of “NO!” a day when he was younger, he’s gotten better as he’s gotten older so it isn’t something that’s too difficult to deal with once you get the hang of it.

 

[Goose_Willis]

Yeah that’s where the mistake was made, crouching next to an aggressive hormonal gander, even if you’re pinning him down reduces your body size in his eyes and turns you into what he thinks is a beatable adversary. That’s why I pick mine up and carry them around, it establishes who really has the power.

He’s definitely hormonal, it can start in late fall, by winter it’s in full swing, it can last through spring, sometimes it depends on the goose but usually hormones spike up when the sunlight is fading and it’s getting cooler, and it starts dissipating when the season shifts back into the warmer months of spring. I don’t know if it’s true for all geese but mine are especially spicy on the coldest days.

The other reason it’s not quite working on your end is because that’s normal, there isn’t a one time quick fix to the problem. He’s hormonal and hormonal aggressive ganders need repeated reminding, sometimes daily, they can’t help it, their brain is kinda scrambled in breeding season. It isn’t necessarily personal either, they‘ll flip out on everything, including inanimate objects.

Though they can’t help it they are still capable of learning and after a getting picked up a few times they do make an attempt to control themselves and learn that if they don’t back off when told “NO!“ they’re going to be emasculated and scooped up and carried around.

It might seem strange but offering him a treat afterwards can teach him that though you’re the undisputed boss you’re also his friend and that can persuade him to be more friendly. I definitely encourage doing that because even though this isn’t his normal state of being through the year it can set him up for how he perceives you the rest of the year.

The cackling girls are also half the problem. There is no gander that can resist the cry for war, which is what the girls are doing. They’re egging him on and it has an extreme affect on his emotional state. Gander brains turn into enraged goo when they hear that.

Not every gander is aggressive, a lot of it comes from personality and how they were raised. My ganders that I raised like puppies and have spent a lot of time with aren’t aggressive towards me in breeding season, they’ll even scold the girls if they cackle at me.
The ones I’ve been less hands on with and don’t spend as much time with are to varying extents. Two of them I’ll have to pick up once every other week at most, the most aggressive was usually every other day with multiple reminding of “NO!” a day when he was younger, he’s gotten better as he’s gotten older so it isn’t something that’s too difficult to deal with once you get the hang of it.

Thank you for the detailed response.

I agree that he's hormonal, my ducks are all hormonal right now and my two drakes have been squabbling and chasing each other around. I thought that I had been hands on with raising them, I haven't been away from them for more that 6 hours for their entire lives. They literally follow me around like little dogs.

I've handled them all extensively from two days old onward; when they were in the brooder the girls would gang up on Boris and push him in the water and rip out his feathers so he spent alot of time wrapped up in a towel inside of my sweater against my body as a tiny guy because he was always cold. I'm assuming the girls picked on him so much because he was much smaller than them until the last couple months or so and they only stopped picking on him when he finally outgrew them.

When I moved them outside they would cry when I left them alone so I would sit in their coop with them for hours with a book and they would sleep in my lap or next to me. I kept doing that with them when they started free ranging because I *foolishly* hoped if they were used to me being on the ground with them that when they got big they wouldn't attack me for squatting down to pull a weed 100 feet away from them (I now realize that squatting is always going to be a no-no during breeding season). I haven't been squatting in their presence over the last few days but I guess now it's a challenge for him because now he's been challenging me everytime I walk outside, no bending or squatting necessary and he's even challenging my husband which he's never done before.

I work at home so I've been able to sit outside with them for a few hours every day, 6 days a week. They used to all come up and sleep at my feet when I would do yard work or whatever else outside or they would nuzzle/feak against my legs and investigate whatever I was doing. Boris even had a habit of sleeping with his head in my lap or he would lean over my lap if i was sitting on a chair and fall asleep on my leg. My sweetest girl will still do that to me but Boris and the two smaller, meaner ladies just plot and conspire and try to jump me (he went for me 3 times this morning with those two girls in tow).

This same gander used to run through a patch of cactus in my yard on occasion (now he knows where it is and avoids it) and he would let me pick him up and hold him in my lap and pull out his cactus stickers, no towel burrito, leather gloves, or second pair of hands needed. Same with the girls, everybody *usually* let's me handle them and check their feet without much complaining. I always give them snacks after I do something as rude as look at their feet too.

Sorry for the ramble, lol.

 

[Goosebaby]

Thank you for the detailed response.

I agree that he's hormonal, my ducks are all hormonal right now and my two drakes have been squabbling and chasing each other around. I thought that I had been hands on with raising them, I haven't been away from them for more that 6 hours for their entire lives. They literally follow me around like little dogs.

I've handled them all extensively from two days old onward; when they were in the brooder the girls would gang up on Boris and push him in the water and rip out his feathers so he spent alot of time wrapped up in a towel inside of my sweater against my body as a tiny guy because he was always cold. I'm assuming the girls picked on him so much because he was much smaller than them until the last couple months or so and they only stopped picking on him when he finally outgrew them.

When I moved them outside they would cry when I left them alone so I would sit in their coop with them for hours with a book and they would sleep in my lap or next to me. I kept doing that with them when they started free ranging because I *foolishly* hoped if they were used to me being on the ground with them that when they got big they wouldn't attack me for squatting down to pull a weed 100 feet away from them (I now realize that squatting is always going to be a no-no during breeding season). I haven't been squatting in their presence over the last few days but I guess now it's a challenge for him because now he's been challenging me everytime I walk outside, no bending or squatting necessary and he's even challenging my husband which he's never done before.

I work at home so I've been able to sit outside with them for a few hours every day, 6 days a week. They used to all come up and sleep at my feet when I would do yard work or whatever else outside or they would nuzzle/feak against my legs and investigate whatever I was doing. Boris even had a habit of sleeping with his head in my lap or he would lean over my lap if i was sitting on a chair and fall asleep on my leg. My sweetest girl will still do that to me but Boris and the two smaller, meaner ladies just plot and conspire and try to jump me (he went for me 3 times this morning with those two girls in tow).

This same gander used to run through a patch of cactus in my yard on occasion (now he knows where it is and avoids it) and he would let me pick him up and hold him in my lap and pull out his cactus stickers, no towel burrito, leather gloves, or second pair of hands needed. Same with the girls, everybody *usually* let's me handle them and check their feet without much complaining. I always give them snacks after I do something as rude as look at their feet too.

Sorry for the ramble, lol.

Sounds like it’s just his hormones getting the better of him then, what a stinker! You’ve got a spicy dinosaur alright!

He‘s only a year old if I’m not mistaken, so he doesn’t have a lot of brains still, it could get better as he gets older and learns his place. Some ganders get better, though some do get more aggressive before they get better, 2 to 6 year olds are at their peak dominance, after that they begin mellowing, usually.

So you could keep trying to work with him, most of the time it seems like it’s not helping because the repeat charges and constant aggression but it does help and it does a lot to keep them from worsening.
The winter roid rage is an endlessly frustrating time of year, but it does get better around springtime.

 

[Sydaroo 2]

Here's what I do and it is working with my 2 Emden geese. At night when they are in their stall (I always wear gloves and always keep my face out of striking distance) I corner a goose from behind, hold his head firmly as I squat down with him between my legs. Hold that head hard with one hand and stroke him nicely with the other and he settles down. As he settles down soften the holding of his head which you do not let him turn towards you. Soon he will submit and you pet him until he relaxes thoroughly. Then stand up and leave him. This is the same method as tying down a problem horse. You make them realize you are stronger than them and immobilize them and be KIND to them. They soon realize you are stronger but when they are helpless...you WON'T HARM them. GOOD LUCK!

 

[Goose_Willis]

Update:

Thank you everyone for the advice. I'm so sorry to disappoint but none of the methods I tried from this thread helped with this gander and his aggression increased and started rubbing off of the whole flock so they were all given VIP tickets to the freezer club.

The gander was 45 inches tall and 18 lbs by the time I made this decision - he could also fly a short distance and he was starting to jump me by flying up and landing on my back while the girls swarmed my feet to trip me. Not my cup of tea.

My ducks are absolutely thrilled that the geese are gone. They used to constantly scream in the middle of the night for no reason and have stopped now that the geese are gone; I think the geese may have been scaring the ducks in the dark. The ducks' happiness and the decrease in agitation from my cats and dogs makes me feel that I made the correct decision in regards to advocating for the masses on my little developing farmstead.

I'll try a different breed of geese again in the future because they were a delight but I need to be better prepared for their quirks before I have another go. I wish I had known about this forum when I was selecting my intended breed of goose; the anecdotes provided by actual bird stewards is much more informative than the little blurbs from hatcheries that say cute things like "noisy but gentle" instead of "brings the raucous and will attack your 80 pound dog like there's no tomorrow".