genetic/color question

[KsKingBee]

Good info, and of course you gave me even more to complicate with the single and double factor to consider. I will be going to Brad Leggs this week or next, I hope Brad has time to talk genetic traits.

 

[DylansMom]

Good info, and of course you gave me even more to complicate with the single and double factor to consider. I will be going to Brad Leggs this week or next, I hope Brad has time to talk genetic traits.

Anytime you get to feeling like your life has just become way too simple, I am just a keyboard click away and always happy to muddy the waters a little for you!

 

[zazouse]

 

[KsKingBee]

Anytime you get to feeling like your life has just become way too simple, I am just a keyboard click away and always happy to muddy the waters a little for you!

Your expertise is always appreciated.

 

[Garden Peas]

As far as I know none of the pairs are carrying green genes. But we all know it is not really possible to be sure about that, it could be many generations back. I did suspect the male in the pic was a BS split and this kind of confirmed that for me. He is a richly colored bird, hard to explain, but even the tan on his striped wing feathers is more of a reddish/tan than the others. I don't know if that "richness" could be an indicator of green genes or not.

Well that makes sense, looking at the photos

the hens look very bright and richly colored and so does the putative

father... I noticed it on the very first two photos that you posted, but just attributed to an artifact of the lighting. The colors on all three birds look really intense...





The hen in the foreground seems to have a really tight crest, even though "dad" doesn't

But the other thing I noticed from your close-up photo here:



On this close-up, it looks like the barring is fading on the feathers that are in the top left corner of the photograph... which kinda goes along with the whole hen thing?

Pretty birds

Now a question from me... do the colors on a black-shoulder bird look "just like" the colors on a wild pattern bird, or do folks see some slight difference in the other colors, the tans/browns, etc? I'm pondering how the black shoulder pattern works, but my only BS bird here is female...

 

[DylansMom]

Well that makes sense, looking at the photos

the hens look very bright and richly colored and so does the putative

father... I noticed it on the very first two photos that you posted, but just attributed to an artifact of the lighting. The colors on all three birds look really intense...





The hen in the foreground seems to have a really tight crest, even though "dad" doesn't

But the other thing I noticed from your close-up photo here:



On this close-up, it looks like the barring is fading on the feathers that are in the top left corner of the photograph... which kinda goes along with the whole hen thing?

Pretty birds

Now a question from me... do the colors on a black-shoulder bird look "just like" the colors on a wild pattern bird, or do folks see some slight difference in the other colors, the tans/browns, etc? I'm pondering how the black shoulder pattern works, but my only BS bird here is female...

I went out and took a pic of the wing feathers on the other side. They all have that look, but I think is a result of the Silver or White Eye genes. This bird is carrying a lot of splits, that is evident and the wings actually appear frosted or powdered with white.



None of my 50% spaldings have such clear stripes on their wings theirs are much darker. The spalding in this pic is about the same age, see how dark the wings are.



As for the BS color, I think the tail feathers, and body feathers are pretty much identical to IB barred wing. I have one BS in the end pen of the barn, when he has his full tail it always seems to show more of the bronzey, coppery colors, but I think it is more a difference of lighting than difference in feather color. I sell feathers and I cannot tell which ones are from the BS and which are from the barred wings.

 

[Garden Peas]

I went out and took a pic of the wing feathers on the other side. They all have that look, but I think is a result of the Silver or White Eye genes. This bird is carrying a lot of splits, that is evident and the wings actually appear frosted or powdered with white.



None of my 50% spaldings have such clear stripes on their wings theirs are much darker. The spalding in this pic is about the same age, see how dark the wings are.



As for the BS color, I think the tail feathers, and body feathers are pretty much identical to IB barred wing. I have one BS in the end pen of the barn, when he has his full tail it always seems to show more of the bronzey, coppery colors, but I think it is more a difference of lighting than difference in feather color. I sell feathers and I cannot tell which ones are from the BS and which are from the barred wings.

Well we are definitely beyond my level of expertise

I'm just still trying to figure out the black shoulder gene and how it works. Yes, I get what the BS birds look like, and how it transmits, but I've just been contemplating the whole white/pattern genes thing from a "big picture" standpoint. So ruminating a bit... In horses, there are lots of little weird pattern genes, so white shows up in different places and in different patterns. And then bay horses have a gene that "restricts" black to certain areas of the horse rather than changes the base color of the horse, so it acts like a pattern gene even though it's a color gene. (Eek, if that was a poor explanation, forgive me!

)

So I've been thinking about black shoulder as maybe a color restricting gene, and wondering if that could be how it works, sort of? Since BS hens get their color pretty much restricted, and the tan/white wing bars "go away" on the males, leaving the dark feathers. It could perhaps be a gene that restricts the expression of the tan/gray colors... or maybe that's just a really stupid idea

Anyway, feel free to correct me, folks, just be gentle

it's just an idea I've been kicking around, along with the idea that there might be multiple white pattern genes, so we see pied patterns as well as now this frosting/dusting like on the tail feathers of that lovely young pea that somebody with more experience than me thinks might be a hen

 

[msmolly]

IB Color /breeding question-

I'm told my male "Blue" is IB split to white. My hen "Lucy" is IB split to pied. Both appear IB but for white flight feathers. They have 2 years in a row- thrown 6 chicks, 3 that appear pied and 3 appear IB.

The owner of two of Lucy's pied chicks from 2 -3 years ago (pictures attached)- wants to breed them back to "Blue", because we were told there would be a high chance of getting White chicks.
Is this true? Is this advisable? or is this a mistake? Advice Please.

Attached Pictures are # 1) "Blue" the daddy or soon to be grand daddy. # 2) "Lucy" Mother and # 3) the offspring-Pied Hens- soon to be wed to their father Blue.

 

[DylansMom]

IB Color /breeding question-

I'm told my male "Blue" is IB split to white. My hen "Lucy" is IB split to pied. Both appear IB but for white flight feathers. They have 2 years in a row- thrown 6 chicks, 3 that appear pied and 3 appear IB.

The owner of two of Lucy's pied chicks from 2 -3 years ago (pictures attached)- wants to breed them back to "Blue", because we were told there would be a high chance of getting White chicks.
Is this true? Is this advisable? or is this a mistake? Advice Please.

Attached Pictures are # 1) "Blue" the daddy or soon to be grand daddy. # 2) "Lucy" Mother and # 3) the offspring-Pied Hens- soon to be wed to their father Blue.

Sounds like the info you were given is correct, judging by the offspring anyway. If you were to breed the daughters back to dad I believe you would get 25% white offspring( that's on paper anyway). Breeding back for 1 generation is probably not going to cause any problems, as long as the parents are not related and you don't keep doing it over and over. Breeders do it to isolate and reproduce new color mutations.

 

[msmolly]

Sounds like the info you were given is correct, judging by the offspring anyway. If you were to breed the daughters back to dad I believe you would get 25% white offspring( that's on paper anyway). Breeding back for 1 generation is probably not going to cause any problems, as long as the parents are not related and you don't keep doing it over and over. Breeders do it to isolate and reproduce new color mutations.

Thanks DylansMom,
So, what would the two offspring hens(shown above) be called? and what would the other 75% of this 3rd generation be? and I'm asking allot, I know, but the white is called what, on paper?
I appreciate it, really.