Genetic Hackle Fowl Chat

[Dovemaiden]

This is interesting— http://www.poultrydvm.com/condition/frostbite

 

[Dovemaiden]

Where do you live? N, S, E, W? What is the coldest you have seen?
I am going to work on putting heavy duty insulation in my one shed this fall.

 

[Dovemaiden]

I intend to keep mine like normal chickens, because it just makes me too sad to do otherwise.
In the group of 18, 3-month-old Hackles we have 10 males. It really freaked me out when they were 4 weeks old and started sparring by wrapping their necks around to peck each other's backs and push their chests together. That lasted about a week and then they seemed to get a pecking order worked out and everyone settled down.
Now they don't fight at all, they just have little standoffs by stiffening their capes out into these crazy electrified hairdos
I have high hopes for keeping males together as @dheltzel who I got them from does.
However, I do need to pick out the 4 best males to keep, and I can't figure out if I can select based on the traits they're showing now, or if I should wait until they're full grown and fully representing their qualities?
The birdie I was questioning the sex of has since answered for himself by reddening his comb up in the few days since we talked about him, @Dovemaiden . I still want to post some pictures because he's so much bigger than the others, but it's been raining every day, so I have to wait for a good opportunity.

As for frostbite, lowering the humidity in coops through plentiful upper ventilation is supposed to help. But I've never kept chickens in a super cold climate so what do I know, Lol.

I think you know quite a bit! Yes, humidity is not a chicken’s friend!
I would wait on rooster selection until they are a few months old, at least, do you can tell what is happening( fast growth vs. slow growth, length of saddle/cape, etc).
But I think we would all love to see photos of your young birds hand for you to keep us updated. It will be fun for Mr. Heltzel to see, as well.
He is so right in choosing buyers who want to stick with the breed long-term. It’s truly a labor of love( in addition to being an addiction!)
One of the first things I did with my hatching my GHF was to breed the flock, cull problems( only a couple, really) and then sell about 20 of the 6- wee-old chicks to a fancier who PROMISED to keep the Darbee line going, and that said we would stay in close contact & trade genetics later.
I really just wanted to have a good number of the Darbee birds in a different area, in case, a predator got to them, a disease occurred that was something I could not remedy, some type of accident (like the electricity grid failed in winter) or if I died.
The last sounds morbid, but you never know, I am older, death is a certainty, and people trying to sort things out after a fancier or pet owner died would think these were “ just chickens.”

I really need a will( a Trust is even better) for disposal of my properties in case of adverse event. The material goods are not so much of a problem as the birds( including a couple of parrots), horses, dogs— your pets & livestock.

Think about it; how many people know the pets or livestock you raise, how to care for them, where registry papers are( like the dogs, horses) and where they should go if you don’t have instructions?
I remember years ago there was an utter disaster on a large Parrot facility in Florida; the entire family died, it was days before someone realized it from them not gathering Mail; and by that time over half the birds had died of starvation and dehydration. No one knew what to do with remainder; it was quite sad, and left an impression with me.

 

[SourRoses]

I would wait on rooster selection until they are a few months old, at least, do you can tell what is happening( fast growth vs. slow growth, length of saddle/cape, etc).

Okay, cool, so do you think about 4 months would be a good age to select for traits, or might I miss something that early?
Our hot weather really kicked into gear while the chicks were feathering in, and I was raising 3 other breeds at the same time. All of the breeds seemed slow feathering in.
I was feeding 22% protein chick starter for the first two months and then switched to 20% protein starter / grower.
My thought has been high protein must be important for all that feather growth, I've also considered the game bird feed.
About what protein do you feed?

 

[Dovemaiden]

I think the issue people would have would be selling the results of the crosses as purebred for either breed. As long as the heritage is fully disclosed to the next breeder, then they can decide if that is what they want to work with. My overarching goal with my GH birds is preservation of the genes I received from Joel. To that end, I feel I should distribute them widely, but my goals do not include outcrossing to other breeds.
I love the hear the results of such breeding and the genetic information gleaned, just do not represent them as pure GH to anyone until you have a stabilized line that has been used by experienced tiers and given a big thumbs up, then they would be your line, no longer the line of the breeder you got them from.

What are the characteristics in general of the Alsdorf line? I would like to find out more. What is the predominant comb & leg color?
And, what color is thrown the most?
How many birds do you overwinter?
It is a rare opportunity to ever see any of GHF for sale.
Have you measured the longest cape and the longest saddle hackle ? Just curious.
I would sure like to see more of them if you would put up photos!!

 

[Dovemaiden]

Okay, cool, so do you think about 4 months would be a good age to select for traits, or might I miss something that early?
Our hot weather really kicked into gear while the chicks were feathering in, and I was raising 3 other breeds at the same time. All of the breeds seemed slow feathering in.
I was feeding 22% protein chick starter for the first two months and then switched to 20% protein starter / grower.
My thought has been high protein must be important for all that feather growth, I've also considered the game bird feed.
About what protein do you feed?

I feed between 24% and 28% ( depending on age of the birds) plus they have cuttlebone, and every day I let another pen out to forage in the garden, they love it.
I make sure they have scratch and crushed oyster shells for Calcium available in a big outside container as well as water at all times.
They also are kept busy amd the beaks worn down a bit by adding in a game bird protein block to their pen. Here is a photo of someone using a cabbage( or maybe it’s lettuce) on a rope to keep the birds occupied and non picking.

 

[Dovemaiden]

Okay, cool, so do you think about 4 months would be a good age to select for traits, or might I miss something that early?
Our hot weather really kicked into gear while the chicks were feathering in, and I was raising 3 other breeds at the same time. All of the breeds seemed slow feathering in.
I was feeding 22% protein chick starter for the first two months and then switched to 20% protein starter / grower.
My thought has been high protein must be important for all that feather growth, I've also considered the game bird feed.
About what protein do you feed?

I would wait at least 8 months or more. You really can’t tell a huge amount about the birds until they are nearly a year old. Slow feathering is not necessarily a bad thing, and you can still have some very nice birds turning out by waiting until they are feathered & grown.
The only thing, as I mentioned before, is that even though it is a pain keeping separate pens for roosters, sometimes it IS necessary with overly aggressive hens. They can destroy a cockerels feathers in a few hours, and then continue the pecking until he is basically down feathering or bald. Some hens focus on those blood feathers, and it’s not nutritional deficit, — it is just a very bad habit.
If you see the roosters losing patches of feathers on the sides of the neck or back, he needs to be removed, or there will never be a chance of the feathers growing back & knowing exactly what he is possible demonstrate when in full feather.
I had one pair of hens who totally picked off saddles & capes & ate them, due to this bad habit.
The other option is keeping the hens that do this in a different pen, only allowing the together for breeding; or disposing of the feather-eating hens. It is the same when you have a hen develop an egg -eating habit, yet you provide her with all the food she wants.
With this one pair of hens that feather peck the makes, I did have a rooster lose his left eye when they were in with him. I had mostly stripped off the saddle for breeding purposes, but it didn’t slow them down one bit. I did not realize that in their zealousness, they would also target his eye!

 

[SourRoses]

What are the characteristics in general of the Alsdorf line? I would like to find out more. What is the predominant comb & leg color?
And, what color is thrown the most?
How many birds do you overwinter?
It is a rare opportunity to ever see any of GHF for sale.
Have you measured the longest cape and the longest saddle hackle ? Just curious.
I would sure like to see more of them if you would put up photos!!

Of the chicks I received, there was an even ratio of black and blonde birds for the majority with a few reds and one silvery grey.
Mostly yellowish legs but the big one I mentioned has darker legs I like.

There are some pictures on Dennis's website and FB group, I also "borrowed" this picture of another customers grown Blonde for your reference. I hope it's ok to share. The owner is Jordan Kerby and the birds name is Alfredo.
Personally, I really do love the Blonde color and I'm so happy to have many of them. In person the sun lights up those cape feathers with a golden sheen.

 

[SourRoses]

I would wait at least 8 months or more. You really can’t tell a huge amount about the birds until they are nearly a year old. Slow feathering is not necessarily a bad thing, and you can still have some very nice birds turning out by waiting until they are feathered & grown.
The only thing, as I mentioned before, is that even though it is a pain keeping separate pens for roosters, sometimes it IS necessary with overly aggressive hens.

Aww, what a shame about your boy getting hurt.
I think that degree of aggression by the hens would be a disqualifying trait for me.
But then, my goals are slightly different... instead of the most maximized feathers for fly tying (I don't even fish) I'm fascinated by the quantity of lengthy feathers all over the bird and my goal is to continue those great genes while selecting for docility and egg laying. If they can't get along in a flock I wouldn't want to perpetuate them (unless they had such rare qualities it would be worth it to maintain a separate line).
I've been toying with the idea of starting a separate egg improvement pen with an extra male over some leghorn hens... then keep backcrossing to Hackles for as many generations as it takes to get the feathering back on track before blending it with my main Hackle pen. My concern of course is just how many generations will it take to get the proper feathers back. But I do think it's important to have really good laying (productive, even) for the continuation of the breed into the future.
There's also the option of merely selecting for good laying, but I wondered if that might take even longer than a cross?

 

[JacinLarkwell]

There are some great articles ( or used to be, years ago) that I read in BYC on frostbite. Here is a general link:http://www.poultrydvm.com/condition/frostbite
I have only had it occur severely once, in a couple D’Uccles who, for whatever reason, left the coop and decided to go for an evening walk in the snow. They had to be euthanized; the legs were beyond help.
But, with sperm count, it will lower in proportion to frostbite damage. Your single-combed birds, interestingly, have the highest fertility—and those are the ones most affected by frostbite, because the comb is further distances from the body. That was lucky indeed you had no problems! Sometimes I put Vaseline or “ Udder Balm” with lanolin on the combs & wattles, for an extra layer of protection.

I don't do Vaseline on them. It's moist and against their combs, which seems like it would just cause more trouble. It's horribly cold here in the winters though. -20F+ nights and some days too, hence the goal to have at least my more sensitive birds heated a smidge