Genetic Hackle Fowl Chat

[Dovemaiden]

Aww, what a shame about your boy getting hurt.
I think that degree of aggression by the hens would be a disqualifying trait for me.
But then, my goals are slightly different... instead of the most maximized feathers for fly tying (I don't even fish) I'm fascinated by the quantity of lengthy feathers all over the bird and my goal is to continue those great genes while selecting for docility and egg laying. If they can't get along in a flock I wouldn't want to perpetuate them (unless they had such rare qualities it would be worth it to maintain a separate line).
I've been toying with the idea of starting a separate egg improvement pen with an extra male over some leghorn hens... then keep backcrossing to Hackles for as many generations as it takes to get the feathering back on track before blending it with my main Hackle pen. My concern of course is just how many generations will it take to get the proper feathers back. But I do think it's important to have really good laying (productive, even) for the continuation of the breed into the future.
There's also the option of merely selecting for good laying, but I wondered if that might take even longer than a cross?

That would certainly be an interesting project! I think Tom Writing did something sort of similar with " Whiting True Blues" to increase eggs laying. I read a fly tying article where the author was saying that these were a type of Genetic Hackle Fowl, but have since found articles that disagree with this statement, saying the " True Blues" are homozygous for blue eggs through the Ameraucana side of their heritage, and the Leghorn side is for superior egg production, but that these birds do not produce the cape\saddle dry fly strings like feathers.
You can only get Whiting True Blues thru Murray McMurray Hatchery, and they are supposed to breed true, unlike the Hoover Hatchery rendition of Whiting's work, called the Prairie Bluebells.
It would be fascinating to see if you could develop an egglayer with the feathering of GHF. I found this Darbee line to be extremely broody, they start setting at the drop of a hat ( or an egg!) whereas I did not see that in the Aston line. I am not sure if all strains of GHF are that broody ? Perhaps Mr. Heltzel would be able to provide more data on this? The breeder I bough t my birds from had all birds in separate cages; and hatched everything by incubator.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Would you be able to post some of the different Phoenix you have and the color variations as well? I would be very interested in seeing them, if it is not too much trouble.

Of course, I can get some images tonight of who I currently have!

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I have been very happy to find the Alsdorf line are quite cold hardy here is SE PA (winters milder than some of you, I realize). They have both single and rose comb in the genes, but the single combs are smaller, like a Welsummer, and not large like a Leghorn.
I have not had any problems with hens picking on males. I lose some birds that just fail to thrive and sort of waste away. I had assumed Marek's, but most of my birds are now vaccinated and I still see it some. I don't "coddle" my birds, they have to survive on a farm with minimal care beyond what a regular chicken would receive. I raise a lot of young ones every year to allow for me to lose up to half and still come into spring with a good sized flock.
I don't try to breed for a particular color pattern, but my personal favorites are the blonde (Crele, Cree, or whatever), so the males in my breeding pen are all that color. I believe that the grizzly colors are larger birds than the crele, but have not weighed them to check that, it just seems that the crele are a bit smaller and shorter. I would not mind if the crele birds trended to bantam size, they would certainly be fine pets even if small. But I am not actively striving for that, my main goal is maintaining a wide gene pool for a long time. If I had the space for 2 pens, I would separate them into 2 lines, but I would rather keep 1 larger pen and reserve the small pens for breeding experiments with other "laying type" breeds (currently working with sex-linked black/lavender Ameraucanas and Isabel Welbars/Welsummers/Olive Eggers).

Do they seem to handle heat well? I would assume not because of all those heavy feathers, but I've also seem some very fluffy birds do quite well.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I have been very happy to find the Alsdorf line are quite cold hardy here is SE PA (winters milder than some of you, I realize). They have both single and rose comb in the genes, but the single combs are smaller, like a Welsummer, and not large like a Leghorn.
I have not had any problems with hens picking on males. I lose some birds that just fail to thrive and sort of waste away. I had assumed Marek's, but most of my birds are now vaccinated and I still see it some. I don't "coddle" my birds, they have to survive on a farm with minimal care beyond what a regular chicken would receive. I raise a lot of young ones every year to allow for me to lose up to half and still come into spring with a good sized flock.
I don't try to breed for a particular color pattern, but my personal favorites are the blonde (Crele, Cree, or whatever), so the males in my breeding pen are all that color. I believe that the grizzly colors are larger birds than the crele, but have not weighed them to check that, it just seems that the crele are a bit smaller and shorter. I would not mind if the crele birds trended to bantam size, they would certainly be fine pets even if small. But I am not actively striving for that, my main goal is maintaining a wide gene pool for a long time. If I had the space for 2 pens, I would separate them into 2 lines, but I would rather keep 1 larger pen and reserve the small pens for breeding experiments with other "laying type" breeds (currently working with sex-linked black/lavender Ameraucanas and Isabel Welbars/Welsummers/Olive Eggers).

Have you ever necropsied the wasted away males?

 

[JacinLarkwell]

But maybe I'll try saddles if y'all don't think it will matt or ingrow the feathers. I'd really prefer to not have to seperate the male's, and figure maybe it's best to just never give the girls an opportunity to start that bad habit

 

[Dovemaiden]

But maybe I'll try saddles if y'all don't think it will matt or ingrow the feathers. I'd really prefer to not have to seperate the male's, and figure maybe it's best to just never give the girls an opportunity to start that bad habit

Let me see if I can attach a photo of what these hens did to one of my male's saddles. I posted this one but it is hard to see his saddle. Let me try another.He did have saddle hackles to the ground before meeting these Delilah's! I have photos of both of them, too, I put poly peepers on them but it didn't work. They did not do as much damage to the neck Hackle as they did with my first Barred( Grizz) rooster.

 

[Dovemaiden]

Let me see if I can attach a photo of what these hens did to one of my male's saddles. I posted this one but it is hard to see his saddle. Let me try another.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I'll put the pheonixes in a spoiler so they don't overwhelm anyone uninterested in them.

Spoiler: Pheonixes

All the males are out of theGolden Hackled one not being held. Most of the females are also out of him, though the silver one and the one in the kennel are from a hatchery for new blood.

 

[Dovemaiden]

Have you ever necropsied the wasted away males?

Do you worm them pretty regularly? Sometimes I have found that wasting away with birds that have roundworms. A LOT of the hawks that come into the Rehab we run are fairly heavily parasitized, especially the young of the year. I found out by necropsy, some were actually impacted with worms, that sometimes happens when they are learning to hunt but haven't mastered it yet. The young hawks don't have food, so they lack energy to hunt, then weaken further, and all the parasites seem to become more prevalent and internally and externally, too. We just had a Swainson's come in tonight, a young bird that is going light, and can't fly. After feeding him up for a day or two, I will worm him, then again a couple times before release. You would be surprised at the number of parasites are in the intestinal tract even of birds looking perfectly healthy.

 

[Dovemaiden]

I'll put the pheonixes in a spoiler so they don't overwhelm anyone uninterested in them.

Spoiler: Pheonixes

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Oh, my! These are magnificent! I covet your Red Pyle ( is that a sin?) Unbelievable . They are to die for. I have always loved Phoenix, just everything about them. Do you ever sell chicks?