Genetic Hackle Fowl Chat

[SourRoses]

For everyone breeding Genetic Hackle birds, I thought we could use a new thread for chatting about them.
This could also be a good resource for newcomers to the breed by discussing beginner topics as well.

Everyone working towards this goal is welcome. Please don't discourage anyone who has different lines or a work in progress.

Topics of interest include (but are not limited to):

Breeding Lines
Optimal Feather Traits
Selection by Early Traits
Color Identification
Egg Laying
Temperament
Housing
Fly Tying
Alternative Feather uses (Hair ornamentation, Crafts...?)
And more!

 

[SourRoses]

@Dovemaiden
You posted such great information I was hoping we could copy that here.

 

[SourRoses]

@dheltzel
Would you like to join our chat? A link to your FB group would be fabulous!

 

[Dovemaiden]

For everyone breeding Genetic Hackle birds, I thought we could use a new thread for chatting about them.
This could also be a good resource for newcomers to the breed by discussing beginner topics as well.

Everyone working towards this goal is welcome. Please don't discourage anyone who has different lines or a work in progress.

Topics of interest include (but are not limited to):

Breeding Lines
Optimal Feather Traits
Selection by Early Traits
Color Identification
Egg Laying
Temperament
Housing
Fly Tying
Alternative Feather uses (Hair ornamentation, Crafts...?)
And more!

Thank you for doing this ! I just got going and didn’t think where we were. It would be a fun discussion for people; most do not know what they are.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

While I could be completely barking up the wrong tree, would anyone say there are any cons to introducing pheonix blood to a clutch? Obviously the first generation might suffer because its only half GHF, but pheonixes do have longer feathers and they grow yearly in my experience

 

[Dovemaiden]

I have read and heard people ranting about Hackle Fowl and the dangers inherent of crossing them with the Japanese breeds( Onadagori, Miniohiki, etc) and the German breeds( Phoenix in particular).
The negative consensus generally seems to be that it would cause a shortening of the saddle hackles; that Phoenix feathers are not webless; that it would dilute the Hackle Genes irreparably; it would cause twisting of the rachis( stem) when saddle snd cape hackles are placed on a vise fly-tying.
I believe one negative quote was along the lines of “anyone can cross a Barred Rock with a Phoenix” and call it a Hackle Fowl.
And, perhaps that occurs, I have no idea. I DO know that what Murray McMurray Hatchery sells as fly tie birds are not True Genetic Hackle Fowl; you could,I am sure, tie some colorful wet flies from them, but it is a rather misleading statement if someone is a novice fly tier & thinks they will be able to tie the floating dry flies( unless maybe you add that oily stuff they used to sell forty years ago to make them float, LOL).
I have not been introducing outside breeds to these two lines yet.
However, in Brian Reeder’s books ( he did an inordinate amount of work with Hackle Fowl) he said that you need the non-molting ( nm) gene from the Onadagori in the background of the birds. Reeder compared genetics of Phoenix, Onadagori & a third breed, showing the nm gene missing in the first two.
I will look it up and get you the exact quotes tomorrow, if you like.
Certainly, the long streamer feathers were something deliberately selected for by the Japanese in decorations, etc. and we owe that to them selecting for those unique feathers.
A debt is owed to the German fanciers of the past who did a remarkable job creating the Phoenix & its variants.
And, I may be incorrect, but I think I read the intense number of feathers per square in on the saddle is one of the traits peculiar to the Phoenix, but I do need to pull my books out for a refresher.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I have read and heard people ranting about Hackle Fowl and the dangers inherent of crossing them with the Japanese breeds( Onadagori, Miniohiki, etc) and the German breeds( Phoenix in particular).
The negative consensus generally seems to be that it would cause a shortening of the saddle hackles; that Phoenix feathers are not webless; that it would dilute the Hackle Genes irreparably; it would cause twisting of the rachis( stem) when saddle snd cape hackles are placed on a vise fly-tying.
I believe one negative quote was along the lines of “anyone can cross a Barred Rock with a Phoenix” and call it a Hackle Fowl.
And, perhaps that occurs, I have no idea. I DO know that what Murray McMurray Hatchery sells as fly tie birds are not True Genetic Hackle Fowl; you could,I am sure, tie some colorful wet flies from them, but it is a rather misleading statement if someone is a novice fly tier & thinks they will be able to tie the floating dry flies( unless maybe you add that oily stuff they used to sell forty years ago to make them float, LOL).
I have not been introducing outside breeds to these two lines yet.
However, in Brian Reeder’s books ( he did an inordinate amount of work with Hackle Fowl) he said that you need the non-molting ( nm) gene from the Onadagori in the background of the birds. Reeder compared genetics of Phoenix, Onadagori & a third breed, showing the nm gene missing in the first two.
I will look it up and get you the exact quotes tomorrow, if you like.
Certainly, the long streamer feathers were something deliberately selected for by the Japanese in decorations, etc. and we owe that to them selecting for those unique feathers.
A debt is owed to the German fanciers of the past who did a remarkable job creating the Phoenix & its variants.
And, I may be incorrect, but I think I read the intense number of feathers per square in on the saddle is one of the traits peculiar to the Phoenix, but I do need to pull my books out for a refresher.

Okay, that makes sense. I just wasn't sure if that would be something helpful since I also hobby raise pheonixes and my male grows his long feathers back every year instead of every 2 years.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Also I can see the fly tie special working for some people. When I was trying to find flocks for two of my barred cochin males, I kept getting people asking of they could pay me more and have me harvest their necks and capes for flies

 

[dheltzel]

@dheltzel
Would you like to join our chat? A link to your FB group would be fabulous!

I love my hackle flock. I have 3 very determined broodies right now, but they are not the "mean broodies" my Ameraucanas produce, these birds seem to be as mellow as cochin bantams, and the males seldom fight at all, so I can keep 3 or 4 males in my flock without injury.

This is my webpage with pics: http://welbars.com/doku.php?id=genetic_hackle:start

The facebook group I admin is here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1342639392579584

I do sell eggs and chicks, I would like to get these nice birds distributed to people who care about them. My flock came from Joel Alsdorf (western PA) and he is out of the business now. His birds landed with several other breeders, but not all breeders of these birds are as willing to share the genetics as I am. I don't tie flies (or even fish), I just like their look and personality. Of all the exotic poultry I keep, these end up getting as much attention from visitors as anything. Even a non-chicken person can see how unusual their feathers are.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I love my hackle flock. I have 3 very determined broodies right now, but they are not the "mean broodies" my Ameraucanas produce, these birds seem to be as mellow as cochin bantams, and the males seldom fight at all, so I can keep 3 or 4 males in my flock without injury.

This is my webpage with pics: http://welbars.com/doku.php?id=genetic_hackle:start

The facebook group I admin is here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1342639392579584

I do sell eggs and chicks, I would like to get these nice birds distributed to people who care about them. My flock came from Joel Alsdorf (western PA) and he is out of the business now. His birds landed with several other breeders, but not all breeders of these birds are as willing to share the genetics as I am. I don't tie flies (or even fish), I just like their look and personality. Of all the exotic poultry I keep, these end up getting as much attention from visitors as anything. Even a non-chicken person can see how unusual their feathers are.

I was just looking at your site last night!