Genetic question

[karint]

Ok I'm starting to get the blue/ black splash genetics but now I have another question. I currently have eggs for True blue bantam cochins and blue/black mottled cochin in my incubator. Since they are shipped eggs I'm not sure what type of hatch I will get so will probably combine them. Can someone explain to me what I will get with a pen of true blue and mottled (blue/black) combined please. Thanks

 

[NatJ]

Ok I'm starting to get the blue/ black splash genetics but now I have another question. I currently have eggs for True blue bantam cochins and blue/black mottled cochin in my incubator. Since they are shipped eggs I'm not sure what type of hatch I will get so will probably combine them. Can someone explain to me what I will get with a pen of true blue and mottled (blue/black) combined please. Thanks

Mottling is caused by a recesive gene. So if you cross mottled chickens with other colors or patterns, you will not get the white feather tips in the chicks. Each chick will carry the mottling gene, but no chick will show effects from that gene. (Well, mostly true. Some chicks with just one mottling gene will actually show a few white tips here and there, but not enough to make the usual "mottled" appearance.)


What are "True Blue" Bantam Cochins?

I can think of several possible explanations for that label, but I have no idea which might be correct:

If they have the blue feather gene (black/blue/splash), they will not breed true for blue. But if the breeder flock is just splash x black, then all eggs you buy will produce blue chicks in this generation. If this is what you get, they will have the same black/blue/splash genetics you have already been learning about.

If they have the lavender gene, sometimes called "self blue," they will breed true for their coloring. Crossing them with black/blue/splash chickens will give chicks that do not show the lavender ("self blue") coloring, but the chicks will carry the gene and can give it to their own chicks in future.

Or has someone been breeding them to lay blue eggs, and the feather color could be anything?

Or some other explanation I'm missing?

 

[karint]

I’m thinking self blue and I got the words wrong. Her pend if self blue are beautiful blue bantam Cochins as well as some black bantam Cochins.

I got some eggs from this pen and some from the mottled blue and black pen.

I’m wondering depending what hatches if I put them together what I’ll get but your explanation made a lot of sense.

 

[NatJ]

I’m thinking self blue and I got the words wrong. Her pend if self blue are beautiful blue bantam Cochins as well as some black bantam Cochins.

I got some eggs from this pen and some from the mottled blue and black pen.

I’m wondering depending what hatches if I put them together what I’ll get but your explanation made a lot of sense.

If they are self blue, and you cross them with black mottled, you will get black chicks that carry genes for mottling and for lavender (self blue).

If you cross self blue with blue mottled, you will get black chicks and blue chicks. All chicks will carry genes for mottling and for lavender (self blue).

If you cross self blue with splash mottled, you will get blue chicks that carry genes for mottling and for lavender (self blue).

In any of those cases, if you raise the chicks and breed them to each other, you can get the various black/blue/splash combinations you would expect, you can get some chicks that show lavender, you can get some chicks that show mottling. For chicks that show lavender and are also blue or splash, I don't know how they will look. For chicks that show mottling, they could have any base color (black, blue, splash, lavender, combination).

Or if you raise the mixed chicks and cross the back to one of the parent colors, crossing back to mottled will give some chicks that show mottling and some that don't (about half each way.) Crossing back to self blue (lavender) will give some chicks that show lavender and some that don't (about half each way.) Black/blue/splash will continue to follow the usual rules in all the chicks (so you might have mottled chicks in black or blue or splash, or you might have chicks with blue + lavender if you did that cross).

Many breeders choose to keep lavender (self blue) separate from black/blue/splash type blues. If you want to do that, you could still cross lavender with black mottled (because black does not have a blue gene.) Black chicks from that mating will carry the mottling gene and the lavender gene (don't want to cross them back with blue or splash if you are trying to keep lavender and blue separate).

If the breeder's self blue pen contained some black birds, you will probably get some lavender chicks and some black chicks that carry lavender. Some people call them "splits" because they are "split" for the lavender gene (have one copy of the gene). Breeding those splits to your lavenders will give you some more lavenders and some more splits. Breeding the splits to blues or splashes will give some chick that are blue but carry lavender (not good if you are trying to keep them separate, otherwise not a problem.)

 

[karint]

If they are self blue, and you cross them with black mottled, you will get black chicks that carry genes for mottling and for lavender (self blue).

If you cross self blue with blue mottled, you will get black chicks and blue chicks. All chicks will carry genes for mottling and for lavender (self blue).

If you cross self blue with splash mottled, you will get blue chicks that carry genes for mottling and for lavender (self blue).

In any of those cases, if you raise the chicks and breed them to each other, you can get the various black/blue/splash combinations you would expect, you can get some chicks that show lavender, you can get some chicks that show mottling. For chicks that show lavender and are also blue or splash, I don't know how they will look. For chicks that show mottling, they could have any base color (black, blue, splash, lavender, combination).

Or if you raise the mixed chicks and cross the back to one of the parent colors, crossing back to mottled will give some chicks that show mottling and some that don't (about half each way.) Crossing back to self blue (lavender) will give some chicks that show lavender and some that don't (about half each way.) Black/blue/splash will continue to follow the usual rules in all the chicks (so you might have mottled chicks in black or blue or splash, or you might have chicks with blue + lavender if you did that cross).

Many breeders choose to keep lavender (self blue) separate from black/blue/splash type blues. If you want to do that, you could still cross lavender with black mottled (because black does not have a blue gene.) Black chicks from that mating will carry the mottling gene and the lavender gene (don't want to cross them back with blue or splash if you are trying to keep lavender and blue separate).

If the breeder's self blue pen contained some black birds, you will probably get some lavender chicks and some black chicks that carry lavender. Some people call them "splits" because they are "split" for the lavender gene (have one copy of the gene). Breeding those splits to your lavenders will give you some more lavenders and some more splits. Breeding the splits to blues or splashes will give some chick that are blue but carry lavender (not good if you are trying to keep them separate, otherwise not a problem.)

Wow this is amazing information and exactly what I was hoping someone would share with me. Thanks so much.

 

[karint]

If they are self blue, and you cross them with black mottled, you will get black chicks that carry genes for mottling and for lavender (self blue).

If you cross self blue with blue mottled, you will get black chicks and blue chicks. All chicks will carry genes for mottling and for lavender (self blue).

If you cross self blue with splash mottled, you will get blue chicks that carry genes for mottling and for lavender (self blue).

In any of those cases, if you raise the chicks and breed them to each other, you can get the various black/blue/splash combinations you would expect, you can get some chicks that show lavender, you can get some chicks that show mottling. For chicks that show lavender and are also blue or splash, I don't know how they will look. For chicks that show mottling, they could have any base color (black, blue, splash, lavender, combination).

Or if you raise the mixed chicks and cross the back to one of the parent colors, crossing back to mottled will give some chicks that show mottling and some that don't (about half each way.) Crossing back to self blue (lavender) will give some chicks that show lavender and some that don't (about half each way.) Black/blue/splash will continue to follow the usual rules in all the chicks (so you might have mottled chicks in black or blue or splash, or you might have chicks with blue + lavender if you did that cross).

Many breeders choose to keep lavender (self blue) separate from black/blue/splash type blues. If you want to do that, you could still cross lavender with black mottled (because black does not have a blue gene.) Black chicks from that mating will carry the mottling gene and the lavender gene (don't want to cross them back with blue or splash if you are trying to keep lavender and blue separate).

If the breeder's self blue pen contained some black birds, you will probably get some lavender chicks and some black chicks that carry lavender. Some people call them "splits" because they are "split" for the lavender gene (have one copy of the gene). Breeding those splits to your lavenders will give you some more lavenders and some more splits. Breeding the splits to blues or splashes will give some chick that are blue but carry lavender (not good if you are trying to keep them separate, otherwise not a problem.)

Was just taking notes from all your great information. Just want to be sure I’m clear that self blue is different than lavender?

So if I breed self blue to splash mottled would the blue chicks carry blue genes or blue genes and lavender genes? Where would the lavender come from?

 

[NatJ]

Was just taking notes from all your great information. Just want to be sure I’m clear that self blue is different than lavender?

Self Blue and Lavender are two names for the same color chicken (light gray all over).

Lavender is also the name for the gene that causes the diluted color.

The lavender gene is found in Self Blue chickens (also called Lavender chickens.) The lavender gene is also found in Lavender Mottled and Lavender Cuckoo chickens. And it is in Porcelain d'Uccle chickens and in any chicken variety called "Isabel" or "Isabella."

So if I breed self blue to splash mottled would the blue chicks carry blue genes or blue genes and lavender genes? Where would the lavender come from?

If you breed self blue (also called lavender) to splash mottled:
--chicks look blue
--chicks have one blue gene and one not-blue gene (=one gene for "black")
--chicks have one lavender gene, but that does not affect how they look
--chicks have one mottled gene, but that does not affect how they look

A chicken can have genes for blue, for lavender, and for mottling at the same time or in any combination, because the genes are physically located at different places on the choromsomes. It's like how you can have something on the table and something on the stovetop at the same time, because they are two different places.

 

[karint]

Self Blue and Lavender are two names for the same color chicken (light gray all over).

Lavender is also the name for the gene that causes the diluted color.

The lavender gene is found in Self Blue chickens (also called Lavender chickens.) The lavender gene is also found in Lavender Mottled and Lavender Cuckoo chickens. And it is in Porcelain d'Uccle chickens and in any chicken variety called "Isabel" or "Isabella."


If you breed self blue (also called lavender) to splash mottled:
--chicks look blue
--chicks have one blue gene and one not-blue gene (=one gene for "black")
--chicks have one lavender gene, but that does not affect how they look
--chicks have one mottled gene, but that does not affect how they look

A chicken can have genes for blue, for lavender, and for mottling at the same time or in any combination, because the genes are physically located at different places on the choromsomes. It's like how you can have something on the table and something on the stovetop at the same time, because they are two different places.

Ok I’m kinda following but still a bit confused. So to clarify self blue and lavender are the same colour but just blue is different?

Do for example the breeder I got eggs from has a blue mottled pen and a lavender mottled pen.

 

[NatJ]

Ok I’m kinda following but still a bit confused. So to clarify self blue and lavender are the same colour but just blue is different?

Yes.

Some chicken color names are confusing.

Do for example the breeder I got eggs from has a blue mottled pen and a lavender mottled pen.

Yes, that makes sense. They are keeping chickens with the blue gene and chickens with the lavender gene separate. That is fairly common.

 

[karint]

Yes.

Some chicken color names are confusing.


Yes, that makes sense. They are keeping chickens with the blue gene and chickens with the lavender gene separate. That is fairly common.

Ok so self blue and blue are different then?