Beautiful birds.  Im just in my infancy of this obsession, but I am truly pulled to the orpingtons, and after seeing the colors from Europe...well, Im smitten!  Theresa, those birds are to die for....such color!  Ill have to read back thru the thread and understand exactly how you produced these, so you dont have to repeat yourself, but there was one remark you made that I dont understand, and it would be really appreciated by me if you could expound.  You said the hen "showed good orp shape".  Can you tell me exactly what that means?  What shape you are trying for, and what you are trying to avoid?  Thanks for all the good info; truly magnificent birds.