Genetics!

koaala

In the Brooder
Nov 21, 2016
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0
40
I would like to have som input on my breeding plans. I have right now two breeds: golden partridge brahma and black jersey giant. In spring I will even have black Croad Langshan. My plan is to crossbreed those three and get big sized chicken with the colour of brahma. As I read the genetics it seemes that the best option is to use Brahma rooster to JG and CL hens. That would give in first generation only black roosters and g. partridge hens. Pairing then those would give 50% partridge from both. Which means that there might be clear g.partridge roosters and hens already after third generation. Im I correct?
How about size? Which is the best option for maximizing weight and hight?
 
May 21, 2017
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You would not get partridge hens in the first generation. You could probably get some partridges in the second generation, but I’m not sure how clear their coloring would be.
 

koaala

In the Brooder
Nov 21, 2016
5
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I used this chart. Is it not correct then?
3B443DBF-4227-4FE8-A452-EEC6170B02D3.png
 

Egghead_Jr

Crowing
11 Years
Oct 16, 2010
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Both the Brahma and Giant are large birds. If from good stock they should be already obtaining 10 lbs for hens and 12+ for cocks. Just how large did you want them to be?

The difference between the two is Giants are all frame and meant to be culled as roasters after the frame fills in. Brahma on the other hand traditionally had cockerels harvested as broilers and also roasters.

Are you wanting to make Partridge Giants? It will take some time to clean the legs. The quickest you'd be likely to have Partridge in any number to select for quality is 3rd generation. You may not have the best birds in single comb by then so add another generation or two before expecting consistency in the flock.

Langshan are single combed and white skin. You'd have to work that out but they are feather leg like the Brahma. Partridge Langshan to me seems a worthy project. Of the three breeds it checks my boxes as the best dual purpose.

How you'd go about getting partridge into what your goal is depends on what exactly your goal is. Back crossing to the Brahma is the fastest way but if you're working away from feathered legs, yellow skin or pea comb then breeding the F1 generation together would yield 3 partridge in a 100 hatched. If one of those is worthy then backcrossing to F1 dam or sire would yield one in eight partridge.

If you're set on crossing all three breeds they could be used anytime in process. Lumping all the genetics at beginning gives you a chance to pull out what you want over generations knowing you can always add genes of the breed with traits your creation is lacking later. Say Brahma over Lang and Brahma over Giant then using a sire from one F1 group and the best dams from other F1 to continue with following year to hatch a hundred from to get a few Partridge. Hopefully you get a fine cock from that to backcross the the F1 dams or his hatch mates. Again, it really depends what traits you are attempting to pull out from the genes present.
 

koaala

In the Brooder
Nov 21, 2016
5
0
40
Thanks. My grown brahma roosters weigh over 12 lbs. So they are pretty big already. I love their looks and colour, but I want to add more weight and length. I would use langshan for hight, but they weight less, so I would use giant to get the bigger weight back. In my dream scenario I would get atleast 3 feet tall roosters, colored as Partridge. We live in very cold climate so feathered legs and small comb are desireble. I would even like the longer tail of langshan in that mix.
I will add a picture of one my young roosters I had last summer :)
16B44E6D-56D8-4206-9732-960EC57F6DFE.jpeg
 

Egghead_Jr

Crowing
11 Years
Oct 16, 2010
7,533
3,672
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NEK, VT
I used this chart. Is it not correct then? View attachment 2445001
Silver Penciled Brahma are called Dark Brahma. There in lies the confusion.

The chart is correct if we change the "Dark" to Silver and assume Partridge to be gold penciled. And what they are calling Dark (hiding partridge) is not what is really happening. A penciled cock bird split for silver and gold gene (one of each) is usually referred to as being "golden" as that is the color.

Other than all that confusion the chart is correct except in last sentence viewable where it states Dark (hiding partridge) will look dark. That is false. They will look golden. Not partridge and certainly not Dark; brahma nomenclature for silver penciled. It must be an English thing for Columbian Brahma to be called Light and Silver Penciled called Dark. They call Columbian pattern Sussex Light too.
 

Egghead_Jr

Crowing
11 Years
Oct 16, 2010
7,533
3,672
476
NEK, VT
Ah, so you'll be backcrossing to the Brahma. Works in your favor.

I'd make F1's of both crosses- Brahma over Jersey and Brahma over Langshan. Back cross dams from both of those groups to the Brahma sire following year. Each will yield 1 partridge to every 8 birds hatched. You'll have Brahma with tail and Brahma with size. Mate those two backcross'. The result will be all Partridge, most with pea comb and something to select from conforming to Brahma in body type and skin color.

The breeding nomenclature of that, BLBC X BGBC, BrahmaLangshanBackCross mated to BrahmaGiantBackCross. I'd just call the resulting chicks F1 even though it's your third year in. Select and mate the F1 for F2 then make F3 and so on. Those F1's after the backcross would be the foundation birds. Select and create spiral breeding pens from those or keep notes for line breeding. The F generations can go up to 5 and you'll have keepers from previous F's to back cross to and so forth. An entire family tree starting with F2BCF1 and F3 that was begot from F2xF2. Year after make F4 and more back crosses. The Family tree for genetic diversity will be made and can be start of each new pen in a spiral breeding program.

Many ways to do it, just my thoughts on how I might tackle the project. A lot will be determined by quality of traits if birds or groups are used.

Good Luck
 

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