German New Hampshire

[catdaddyfro]

Jeff, I agree with everything you said. I'm not looking to sell anything to anyone nor jump on anyone's band wagon. That's not in my interest at all. I just want to learn to do this the right way from the get go and nothing more. I have a friend looking for some yard art and I'm thinking about giving him #1 with 3 hatchery NH hens that I have. That's the main reason I posted the pics.... To see if he was on his way out from what others had to say about him that's all. I actually like him the most but would not breed him because of his tail. Some of these birds will be going to freezer camp but out of the 30 German New Hamps that I currently own, I plan on getting down to say.... 3 males and 6 hens by maybe July. I hope that with 30 birds I find three males that are keepers but if not...I have other avenues.

Chris

ETA: Just wanted to say There's a world of difference between a BREEDER and a PROCREATOR remember that.

Hey there Chris yes you should have enough to pick good breeders out of if so desired. I should have contacted you awhile back ago when I first learned of you purchasing the NH eggs that there was an issue brought up some time back about one of banjoes (sorry to bring up anybody in particular but it has now reared its ugly head) breed cocks having too high of a tail angle and He/she was advised otherwise on here about it then and more recently it was brought up again and sloughed off too just like the smilie

( you don't know or don't care?) in the previous post is doing. I'm not one to jump into the middle of a problem right off the bat but now you can see what has came out of the deal and it makes others that are trying to breed right and offer eggs for sell look bad. Its unethical breeding practices for sure.

Now with that being said and I don't give a rats rump if I Pss-off some here. I slept on what I saw, read, and printed on here last evening, and I don't feel any better about it than I did then, in fact I'm in a worse mood than I was last night, NOT a morning person. For the prices that these eggs are being sold as, it is too much. For that amount of money you can get way better quality stock and if I see it on here again I will go to the bidders and tell them via PM what they are up against.(copy, paste post) the evidence is on here. In fact I'm going back to find that post where the cock bird was shown and commented on about the high--@$$ squirrel-tail there were several people commented on just that one rooster if I remember correctly. Its an act of greed and as I said earlier getting in on a fad right now, well you could kill it for the rest of us by spreading inferior stock out there like these, as it won't be long till folks will be saying"boy those German NH are junk" and we know there not, there's too much proof out there that there is good stock to work with. I got some as well as many others on here.

I say if you're going to continue breeding these NHs, get with someone that has a better cock out there as many as there are around I'm sure you could get one for a fair price (probly not much more than shipping cost or what ever arrangement you make to get from point AtoB) I think Scott (har) is not far from you he's in Rogers,AR that's a hop, skip, and a jump form Westville. I lived all around that area I know it well. I'm sure he's got some bred stock to work with.
Oh by the way good mornin everbody the coffees kicking in now and i feel better too. LOL


Jeff

 

[banjoejoe4783]

jeff scot is exacly hoo got my birds for me and no worry you did not step on my toes i let pepole say what they will they are the one hoo in the end will answer for ther words and actions not me

hope you have a good day

 

[immyjay54]

All I have to say is "OH MY GOODNESS". It's funny how quickly one person's picture's and question can turn into a bashing event. I just want to say thanks to anyone that I got eggs from and I know that I will end up with some that I'm not going to be satisfied with but that is fine with me. I love creamed chicken, fried chicken, chicken stuffed shells etc and that high tail or dropped wing etc doesn't make one bit difference in the taste of their meat or eggs. lol
I've seen this happen on other forums on here the exact same way. All it takes is a picture or question. Gee whiz, I think it would be so much nicer if folks would put some of these opinions in an email or PM and not put openly on a forum.
I know I'll never, ever post any more pictures or questions openly on here.
Have a wonderful day.
Jim

 

[Chris Herzog]

Come on guys….lets all just step back from the computer and take a breath.

I’m new to all this so at times I will have lots of questions for you all. Sometimes my questions may not be politically correct but they are never asked being malicious to anyone. With that said, it’s my understanding that the high tail angle and not having consistent characteristics from generation to generation has a lot to do with crossing the German Birds with the American birds. It’s also my understanding that the best way to get the correct color and ticking in the hens was to cross these two lines. So basically it’s a trade off that I knew of going into all this. I’m willing to try and work through that.

I posted those pics not to point fingers at anyone nor to complain about any of the birds that I have bought. I simply just wanted to make sure with you all….the people with more experience than me, that what I thought that I was seeing was correct, remember I’m very green at this. I really don’t want to cull a bird and then have second thoughts about it after it’s to late. That’s all, nothing more nothing less!

I have read enough to know that when crossing lines you ask for trouble but in time (5 or so years), you can work through your problems. These birds are only my starting point. I have a number of birds that are all from the same line that are from three different people. They are all the German / American crossed birds. I also realize that the German males look and do better at the shows but I really don’t want to have a line of pure Germans (for the males) as well as a line of the crossed birds (for the hens). It may take me some time but I’ll work at it with what I have and I’ll get the offspring to look as close to the standard as I can with what I have. If I don’t….really, it’s no big deal.

Chris

 

[DMRippy]

Come on guys….lets all just step back from the computer and take a breath.

I’m new to all this so at times I will have lots of questions for you all. Sometimes my questions may not be politically correct but they are never asked being malicious to anyone. With that said, it’s my understanding that the high tail angle and not having consistent characteristics from generation to generation has a lot to do with crossing the German Birds with the American birds. It’s also my understanding that the best way to get the correct color and ticking in the hens was to cross these two lines. So basically it’s a trade off that I knew of going into all this. I’m willing to try and work through that.

I posted those pics not to point fingers at anyone nor to complain about any of the birds that I have bought. I simply just wanted to make sure with you all….the people with more experience than me, that what I thought that I was seeing was correct, remember I’m very green at this. I really don’t want to cull a bird and then have second thoughts about it after it’s to late. That’s all, nothing more nothing less!

I have read enough to know that when crossing lines you ask for trouble but in time (5 or so years), you can work through your problems. These birds are only my starting point. I have a number of birds that are all from the same line that are from three different people. They are all the German / American crossed birds. I also realize that the German males look and do better at the shows but I really don’t want to have a line of pure Germans (for the males) as well as a line of the crossed birds (for the hens). It may take me some time but I’ll work at it with what I have and I’ll get the offspring to look as close to the standard as I can with what I have. If I don’t….really, it’s no big deal.

Chris

I am new to all this too so I have a question, why do you want an Pure German for your roos and Crosses for you hens?

 

[Chris Herzog]

I am new to all this too so I have a question, why do you want an Pure German for your roos and Crosses for you hens?

It's in my post....The pure German Males do better at the shows. The pure German hens don't do so well so the two lines were crossed to help the hens out. When you cross blood lines there is always other problems that come up. I may be wrong but this is my understanding of it all.

"I also realize that the German males look and do better at the shows but I really don’t want to have a line of pure Germans (for the males) as well as a line of the crossed birds (for the hens). "

Chris

 

[Serrin]

I don't normally wade in on matters such as this, but because of a few things that have been said by Banjoejoe4783, I feel I need to make an exception......

Banjoe, you state that if there are any flaws with your birds that they are Kathy's fault and not yours. Please explain your rationalization of this. Did she send you eggs or chicks? In either case, I fail to see how the short comings in your birds are a direct result of what Kathy sent to you. All responsible and conscientious breeders know that all birds have the potential to be either a breeder or a cull. This is why it's called breeding and not production.

To imply that the lack in your birds is a result of any neglect or lack of due diligence on Kathy's part is not only absurd, it's downright slanderous! How in God's sweet green earth can you cull a day old chick or a hatching egg for that matter? Total absurdity!

It also shows that you have a complete disconnect to what others are trying to achieve with the breed. If you did understand even the most rudimentary elements of breeding to the SOP, you'd know that what you are doing is wrong. Birds that are inferior should not be perpetuated.

Someone once said that the very best of any breed is just two generations away from being mutts. Meaning that if you settle for mediocrity in your breeding program, you will end up with mediocre birds. You must view all of your birds with a very critical eye. And if you don't know what you're looking at, ask others who do to evaluate your birds.

But do not, for even a second, blame your birds on Kathy! You may have gotten them from her, but the responsibility for choosing the very best from what you got still lays with you! Further, if you did know anything at all about breeding, you'd know that it takes time for heritage breeds to mature to the point of deciding on their suitability for your breeding program. Clearly you don't.

It's understandable to me why you have taken this stance. It's always so much easier for some to point the finger at others and claim that the fault lay in that direction, than to take a hard long look in the mirror. Kathy has been far more supportive to all that have approached her for her eggs/birds, than anyone has a right to expect. I'm sure that if you had approached her with genuine desire to participate in the improvement of this breed, she would have been more than happy to help you. Instead, you've chosen to throw down the gauntlet and scream that it's all her fault. Shame on you! Grow up, man up, and take responsibility for your own shortsightedness!

My apologies to anyone [besides banjoe] who may find this rant offensive. I just take exception to people who pull such silly stunts as this!

 

[catdaddyfro]

Here's exactly what I'm saying this is not a breed type bird and if you think so you surely should not be breeding esp towards improvement as stated Banjo
post #366 of 441
3 weeks, 1 day ago

• banjoejoe4783
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• VILLAMIL FARMS
• 

• Location: westville ok
• Joined: 10/2010
• Posts: 1,970
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• offline

i just found some pics on my blackberry from my sons last show and found this pic of one of the young cockerls that is showing great promese of beeing a great bird he is about 7 1/2 mounths and still needs to fill out some he is holding his tail a littel to high but usualy carrys it lower but when the birds hit the table with the other rossters it is like they are saying look at me im biger LOL






V

 

[catdaddyfro]

Although I don't disagree with your original post (not this one), what Banjoejoe said is also with "honesty" if that's what you call it. You started the blame game, my friend. You have no right to say Banjoejoe has to stop selling his birds. Its up to his costumers if they buy from him or not, not you. And if you think about it, hasn't "miss Kathy" done the same? She started the "fad" and has sold birds for lots of $$, also. Think about that. Also, if you don't owe Banjoe an apology, then I see no reason he should apologize.

You have a right to your opinion, as do I and Banjoe, and this is mine.

Hey there Buck bird I apologized for using the harsh word "warned" that was inappropriate of me I did not say he had to quit selling and I can;t make him but it can be made harder to be done though. who's your dog in this fight anyhow? I just don't want to see this Breed run a-muck by improper breeding as its too easy to do.

 

[joletabey]

Shoot, all I see is that Kathy, AFTER SAYING ALL THE STOCK CAME THROUGH HER, gave her opinion on which birds she liked and which she didn't. I don't see a problem with her giving her opinion. I do see a problem with Banjo jumping all over her and blaming her - she SAID the stock came from her. Anyone who breeds for more than two hatches will realize breeding is frequently a crap shoot - good stock can throw some doobies - bad traits can skip a generation and show up later on in a line- its up to whoever gets eggs or chicks to make the next breeding decisions. I got chicks from Kathy and had to make breeding decisions also, not all the chicks grew up to be perfect. One of the roosters I culled had an absolute squirrel tail. Do I blame Kathy for this? NO. And neither should anyone else. Good grief, people!!!

On the other hand, if Banjo chose this particular rooster out of all others that he had, perhaps it was the best choice for other reasons that only Banjo knows, even if the tail set is too high. Sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils. The revered Ralph Sturgeon wrote a whole dang book called "Start Where You Are With What You Have". It's up to whoever wants NH to decide if they want eggs or chicks from Banjo or any of the rest of us that are selling them.