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You don't live in California, that's why. Many chemicals that were once available are not any more. What is considered natural is twice the price and not effective.
Firstly, null and void because of the obvious fact you're replying to my reply to someone else. I wasn't asking about chemicals in California, I was replying to dawg53's statement regarding the status of chemicals in Australia.
Second, how and when does 'natural' stuff cost twice the price of pharmaceuticals? My guess is that you and I have some wildly differing ideas of what's natural. Or in this case it could be geographical.
The same goes for DE. Extremism in your statement.... when it comes to treatment of disease to which all organic methods are inept due to the resistant microorganisms, pharmaceuticals must be used.
Not sure what you mean about DE extremism, please quote the extremism you refer to. I don't really use DE, and I'm well aware the various grades are often very single purpose; you don't use pool-filter grade DE for worming or lice, for example, if you want it to work, but a lot of people don't know that.
No organic methods are inept due to resistant organisms, because those organisms only become immune to artificial and man made treatments. Hence the recommended use of garlic for humans as proven by many studies, the bacteria etc cannot become immune to it. A little research on the latest findings regarding garlic would benefit this debate if you know where to look. Hint: not on a drug-seller's website. Just go straight to the scientists and for that one.
Validate that with some statistics, if you could.
I have never lost a chick to coccidiosis, which seems bizarrely common among those who use drugs for it, and my ratio of adult deaths (among all other age groups) is far less than half of anyone else I know. They regularly lose adults to diseases I associate with chicks, and in general just seem to have immunologically damaged chickens.
No assumptions at all. Perhaps myself, those taking the lead with the Poultry Science Association, and that Fellow raising a flock of 2,600 chickens in Blodgett, Oregon are just amateurs to you, but I sincerely doubt that. Raising birds on compost is not sensible. I'll reserve my area for compost at the other end of the pasture. Let free will take you where you want.
In their wild state birds are raised on compost. Why aren't you crusading to clean the forests? lol. Compost is sensible, if you're doing it right. Anything that doesn't work is by definition not sensible. I know what works for me; it didn't work for you, but that doesn't invalidate my statements. Don't know who those fellows are you're referring to but that's largely irrelevant as it's got nothing to do with this debate. There are many raising flocks of thousands in Australia too, including free range and organic commercial flocks. If natural methods don't work, they would have no income, never mind a business.
Do you seriously think, as per your earlier statements, that since I use natural methods I'm some kind of hippie who would pursue a methodology that destroys my animals, just to be 'cool'? I didn't call anyone an amateur, by the way. Also, lumping yourself in with people who have found some method that works for them doesn't validate your extremely inaccurate assumptions or misinformation concerning composting. Even a backyard suburban farmer could correct you there. Mud, and manure, is not compost.
No need to take humor as a personal attack. Especially when my previous post wasn't addressed to you.
It was in reply to someone else's post to me and negatively branded my stance on the subject (composting) without clearly delineating where you diverged into supposedly separate 'humorous' and generalized hippy-hating.
You should present those facts so what you're saying is believable.
I'm under no obligation to play fetch for adults who are theoretically willing and able to pursue their own education. That 'links/data required' and 'present the facts' line of attack is used by many who do not actually want to know and will refuse to see the truth when it is presented. I no longer play that game, go find your own info, or don't; it's YOUR choice. If you wanted to know you would already know, I suspect. Your attitude toward hippies probably has a lot to do with your throwing the baby out with the bathwater concerning natural methods.
You might want to rethink that statement and look in the mirror.
No, I don't think so; I don't condemn either hippies or standard mainstream farmers for their methods, whether I disagree with either of them, and I certainly don't like the implied suggestion that I'm a hippy if I don't do exactly what you do. It's non-tolerant and not a great recommendation of the state of civilized humanity. You negatively branded hippies and lumped me in with them because I follow a more natural method of poultry keeping, as well as coming out with line after line of claims concerning compost which even a simple google search would prove you weren't talking about compost at all. Your statements about compost defy the actual definition of the word.
Obviously not ok for you, lol.
Yes, actually, it is. Hence my statement that it's ok for us to disagree. This is known as a debate. Otherwise, instead of arguing my point, I'd be spouting something similar to the hippies statements, for example implying you're a redneck, as a way to somehow discredit your stance as opposed to mine. If you imply anyone using composting is a lazy and over-ambitious 'pseudo-hippy', there are some who will take offense at that and correct you on your assumptions, especially when you make it abundantly clear you don't know the difference between muck and compost.
Note: I'm not implying that you or anyone who doesn't compost are rednecks nor am I insisting composting is the only way. I accept it hasn't worked for you, but I'm not trying to completely discredit your chosen methods; compare that to your own stance. It really is ok to disagree.
No hysteria here. Just common sense. See you in the emergencies and diseases section of the forum. I may be able to help you out sometime.
I'm already in that forum often enough, though not for my own flock. After I stopped 'mucking out' so often and got compost composting, I stopped having the majority of problems the average farmer has. The only problems I'm still working on are inherited ones from the random stock I keep bringing in, which I'm happy to work on rather than cull, if I've got no strong reason to destroy the animal. My long-term and established flock doesn't have problems, basically. It's always the new ones. Not counting injuries, obviously.
However, since I've been moving house so many times, and the poultry have been agisting on various properties, their health has suffered from the long break in their usual standards of care, so I do expect I'll be dealing with some different problems soon. It's all part of the job description.
The first half of my original post was a reply to dawg53, hence the fact it followed his post to me. The SECOND half of my post, under your quote of his post to me, was a reply to you. Your reply to my reply to dawg53 will take some abstract replying to... lol.
Again, best wishes. There's more than one way to achieve the same end.