GMO discussion with teacher

[OldGuy43]

One question and I will keep quiet.

Why is it that when a beaver builds a dam for beaver purposes it is good, but when man builds a dam for man's purposes it's bad?

 

[RHRanch]

Quote:
Uh, do you think we should just let all the raptors die off then? Do you know what happens to an ecosystem that loses its apex predators?

The point here is the arrogance of those who decide what's best. Why should DDT be banned worldwide, when it was greatly improving life on a whole contienent, just because it was, supposedly, depletely the raptor population?

The small farmer is the raptor in the GMO debate. Who is going to stand as an advocate for him, to prevent his annilihation?

DDT may have been solving one problem, but it was causing another one, and if we had gone on it would have been irreversable and most species of raptors would have gone extinct. I don't think its arrogant to recognize that you can't let something go one that would cause en ecological disaster that CANNOT be recovered from, extinction is permanent, and we are not talking about one type of bird of prey, we are talking about all of them. Gone. Poof. No more. You don't think there could be global consequences to that just as serious as malaria? It would. Think about food supplies and how they would be at risk from rodent and other small herbivores. Thats just one part, the thing is, its like a game of ecological Jenga - you pull out one type of animal in the foodchain and the whole thing is at risk. Arrogance has nothing to do with it. Its a hard decision, and the CONSERVATIVE one, the cautious one is to not use DDT. I say conservative, because to allow an entire class pof predator be wiped out (potentially worldwide) can be catastrophic.

Don't believe me? Here an example:

Vultures almost went extinct in India because of a drug they were exposed to. It caused all kinds of havoc, including rabies outbreaks, a problem with disposal of human bodies (vultures used to do it), animal attacks, and other sanitation problems including water contamination. http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/07/24/indias-vulture-population-has-plummeted-from-40-million-to-60000-poisoned-by-drug-diclofenac/


heres the rabies info: http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/07/24/...ulation-linked-to-spread-of-rabies-in-humans/

 

[chickened]

Most anything can be replicated, duplicated and synthesized in a lab so when genes mutate it really does not matter by whose hand as the outcome is most surely the same. I could put coal in a press and wait 10 million years and have a diamond just the same. The GMO foods would eventually regress back to ordinary seed if not cloned. And in a nutshell evolution is something from nothing in the beginning after that it is possible to evolve into something from something. I read somewhere that since DNA was discovered species thought to evolve from earlier forms have been rescinded due to the genetic codes being so dissimilar. If I can think of the article I will post it.
Quote:
That is not an accurate description of evolution and its various mechanisms.

Long description:
http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/Origins-of-New-Genes-and-Pseudogenes-835

Short/incomplete description:
http://www.quora.com/How-do-new-genes-get-added-to-chromosomes

Humans adding (or removing, switching on/off, etc) genes into codes is quite different from those that evolve. Non-artificially altered, evolving genetic information is subject to the pressures of natural selection and all that comes with it.

 

[chickened]

Maybe that is what happen to the dinosaurs. Extinction is a natural occurrence as something always contributes to it even man as species go.
Quote:
The point here is the arrogance of those who decide what's best. Why should DDT be banned worldwide, when it was greatly improving life on a whole contienent, just because it was, supposedly, depletely the raptor population?

The small farmer is the raptor in the GMO debate. Who is going to stand as an advocate for him, to prevent his annilihation?

DDT may have been solving one problem, but it was causing another one, and if we had gone on it would have been irreversable and most species of raptors would have gone extinct. I don't think its arrogant to recognize that you can't let something go one that would cause en ecological disaster that CANNOT be recovered from, extinction is permanent, and we are not talking about one type of bird of prey, we are talking about all of them. Gone. Poof. No more. You don't think there could be global consequences to that just as serious as malaria? It would. Think about food supplies and how they would be at risk from rodent and other small herbivores. Thats just one part, the thing is, its like a game of ecological Jenga - you pull out one type of animal in the foodchain and the whole thing is at risk. Arrogance has nothing to do with it. Its a hard decision, and the CONSERVATIVE one, the cautious one is to not use DDT. I say conservative, because to allow an entire class pof predator be wiped out (potentially worldwide) can be catastrophic.

Don't believe me? Here an example:

Vultures almost went extinct in India because of a drug they were exposed to. It caused all kinds of havoc, including rabies outbreaks, a problem with disposal of human bodies (vultures used to do it), animal attacks, and other sanitation problems including water contamination. http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/07/24/indias-vulture-population-has-plummeted-from-40-million-to-60000-poisoned-by-drug-diclofenac/


heres the rabies info: http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/07/24/...ulation-linked-to-spread-of-rabies-in-humans/

 

[trailchick]

chickened,
they are making diamonds now, in the lab......

I dont see GMO's seed regressing back to ordinary seed
a saying we have in the peafowl section is "once a spalding, always a spalding"....

Not to hijack this thread or anything, but i got this link from a friend sometime back RE: farmers in our area

http://farm.ewg.org/

from my friend:
Farm Welfare . er Subsidies, doesn't look like these guys have to do a thing and they still make more money than anyone in the whole area.

do an address search to find the farmers making money in your area:

http://farm.ewg.org/addrsearch.php?z=1&zip/

these farmers are using our tax dollars to make their living.....

Does this have anything to do with GMO's????? Absolutely, it does!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

[hemet dennis]

Quote:
don't believe that they will sue a farmer for some volunteers but if 90% of a farmers field is their GMO seeds then the farmer was stealing
and any farmer can buy any other seeds

Research Percy Schmeiser from Canada and see what Monsanto can do.

yea he planted 98% of their seed and 3 Canadian courts found that he was guilty you need to check both sides of a story

 

[RHRanch]

Quote:
The short answer is that beavers are usually part of an ecosystem which has had a chance to make adjustments over the millennia to the type of housing the beaver builds, and even take advantage of it. Mother natures processes are generally gradual and ongoing, and the beaver dam serves a similar purpose to ocean estuary systems, but in freshwater environments, creating marshlands and small bodies of water. Our dams tend to be sudden, massive and permanent. They tend to exclude wildlife from habitat that the have evolved to use. A good example is Salmon, they migrate up rivers, and the dams are tremendous obstacles to these fish trying to get back to the part of the river they spawned in. It was making them go extinct, it still is a significant factor in their decline, even with Salmon Ladders, which are designed to help them get to their spawning ground.

 

[RHRanch]

Quote:
DDT may have been solving one problem, but it was causing another one, and if we had gone on it would have been irreversable and most species of raptors would have gone extinct. I don't think its arrogant to recognize that you can't let something go one that would cause en ecological disaster that CANNOT be recovered from, extinction is permanent, and we are not talking about one type of bird of prey, we are talking about all of them. Gone. Poof. No more. You don't think there could be global consequences to that just as serious as malaria? It would. Think about food supplies and how they would be at risk from rodent and other small herbivores. Thats just one part, the thing is, its like a game of ecological Jenga - you pull out one type of animal in the foodchain and the whole thing is at risk. Arrogance has nothing to do with it. Its a hard decision, and the CONSERVATIVE one, the cautious one is to not use DDT. I say conservative, because to allow an entire class pof predator be wiped out (potentially worldwide) can be catastrophic.

Don't believe me? Here an example:

Vultures almost went extinct in India because of a drug they were exposed to. It caused all kinds of havoc, including rabies outbreaks, a problem with disposal of human bodies (vultures used to do it), animal attacks, and other sanitation problems including water contamination. http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/07/24/indias-vulture-population-has-plummeted-from-40-million-to-60000-poisoned-by-drug-diclofenac/


heres the rabies info: http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/07/24/...ulation-linked-to-spread-of-rabies-in-humans/


The dinosaurs ate DDT laced prey or the dinosaurs got rabies resulting from an imbalance in the ecosystem? Whichever you mean, its Hilarious!

 

[chickened]

I knew they were making them but I thought they were inferior to real diamonds.
I am no proponet of subsidies, some are nessesary but I think the broader picture you are referring to is a form of redistribution of wealth in the form of cheap food to those that otherwise cannot afford anything more than the cheap produce like cabbage and others like potatoes. I will see what is subsidize in my area though. thanks

Quote:

 

[Royd]

Quote:
The point here is the arrogance of those who decide what's best. Why should DDT be banned worldwide, when it was greatly improving life on a whole contienent, just because it was, supposedly, depletely the raptor population?

The small farmer is the raptor in the GMO debate. Who is going to stand as an advocate for him, to prevent his annilihation?

DDT may have been solving one problem, but it was causing another one, and if we had gone on it would have been irreversable and most species of raptors would have gone extinct. I don't think its arrogant to recognize that you can't let something go one that would cause en ecological disaster that CANNOT be recovered from, extinction is permanent, and we are not talking about one type of bird of prey, we are talking about all of them. Gone. Poof. No more. You don't think there could be global consequences to that just as serious as malaria? It would. Think about food supplies and how they would be at risk from rodent and other small herbivores. Thats just one part, the thing is, its like a game of ecological Jenga - you pull out one type of animal in the foodchain and the whole thing is at risk. Arrogance has nothing to do with it. Its a hard decision, and the CONSERVATIVE one, the cautious one is to not use DDT. I say conservative, because to allow an entire class pof predator be wiped out (potentially worldwide) can be catastrophic.

Don't believe me? Here an example:

Vultures almost went extinct in India because of a drug they were exposed to. It caused all kinds of havoc, including rabies outbreaks, a problem with disposal of human bodies (vultures used to do it), animal attacks, and other sanitation problems including water contamination. http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/07/24/indias-vulture-population-has-plummeted-from-40-million-to-60000-poisoned-by-drug-diclofenac/


heres the rabies info: http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/07/24/...ulation-linked-to-spread-of-rabies-in-humans/

Where's the Greenie lobby on Corn au natural? Talk about setting ourselves up for a worldwide disaster. That's where GMO is headed. Think about it. A huge corporation, with the government's backing, controlling the production of all seed, and wreaking havoc on the lives of all who choose to fight the system.