GMO irony

[MeepBeep]

The concern with GMOs is that you are inserting a gene (haphazardly placed- using a gene gun)

The genes are not haphazardly placed, in fact quite the opposite is true it's a very strategic and precise process...

You want to talk about haphazard mutation look at nuclear and chemical mutations, where they simply bombard the seed with radiation or mix it in toxic chemicals 'hoping' something happens, what that something is is anyone guess, but if it's desirable they will roll with it... Ironically the 'haphazard' nuclear and chemical process is considered organic...

1.Resistance to the herbicide Round Up (which has been shown to be carcinogenic in European studies.  Round up ready crops are doused in Round up in much higher quantities than would otherwise be possible.

Overall they use less Round Up and it's dosed at much lower rates than herbicides and pesticides used in organic farming... And Round Up is far less toxic than many of the chemical used in organic farming... Plus the government does not even keep track of how many chemicals or the application rates used in organic farming, so who knows what they are really doing...

And if you want to talk about toxic stuff sprayed on crops lets talk about that so called organic and safe Rotenone...

2.To produce their own pesticide, Bt.  Bt is naturally produced by a bacteria, and the gene from that bacteria is inserted in the plant.  When an insect eats the leaf with Bt in it, its stomach basically explodes and it dies.  Bt does not directly affect the stomach of mammals, but it does negatively impact the bacteria that line the entire digestive system and forms the front line of our immune system.  When we destroy these bacteria, we destroy the biofilm of the gut lining and we make room for unfriendly, more aggressive bacteria to move in.  They create toxins that make us sick and also create conditions that make it more likely for undigested proteins to make their way through the small intestine into the bloodstream.  The white blood cells recognize that this protein is foreign to the body, and creates allergies against it, so food allergies are born.

Are you not aware that Bt is sprayed in copious amounts on organic (and most any other) crops as a mater of course? Bt, based pesticides account for about 90% of the commercial farming pesticide use worldwide The live bacteria is literally injected into many vine crops (even organic) and left to multiply at will in the plant...

So if you are going to argue that GMO is bad because of Bt, you might actually want to reconsider your attack like it's some GMO exclusive, as for all intents it's pretty much used in all commercial farming...

[quote[These are just a couple reasons people are concerned about GMOs.  It isn't antiscientific. It is not simply fear of technology. I have a degree in biology and genetics.[/quote]

Based on your claims above, it appears you have not studied this much if at all on the 'scientific' level, as most if not all of your argument was based on fallacies and fear mongering...

 

[MeepBeep]

If GMO's are so safe, why are they banned Australia, Japan, the EU and nearly 60 other countries around the world?

If we are to assume you 60 banned countries is real, then what about the other 135 give or take that has not banned it?

It's funny when people base an argument revolving on 'trust' of governments, but only when they agree...

 

[MeepBeep]

Doesn't matter if the studies are correct, less than 25 years time is not enough to see the full effect. 

So what you are saying is that because the certified organic standard was not adopted in the US until 1990 and the finalization did not happen until 2000, modern organic food growing practices have not been around long enough to see it's full effect nor deem organic safe either, right?

Or does the goose play by a separate set of rules than the gander?

I asked before and I'll asked again, tell me how many years it takes to deem in safe, lets put a number out there written in stone that doesn't constantly get moved ahead because the studies continue to not find anything...

So if 25 years is not enough (GMO produced items like insulin have actually been around longer) how many years before we can deem GMOs safe, lets set a number of years right now where if nothing is found you will agree they are safe... And don't forget we will apply that same number of years to the current US organics standards as well, you know fair is fair right?

 

[MeepBeep]

There again just label them & the argument can cease.

Please, even if every GMO product was labeled it would never cease because for all intents almost everything would be labeled even many organics making the label useless... Even in countries that ban GMOs people still complain about GMOs, a label isn't going to change a thing...

https://gmo-awareness.com/2011/05/05/is-organic-always-gmo-free/

 

[MeepBeep]

IMHO I honestly DON'T understand why people use these crops! Obviously it's NOT the only way to farm, when there are thousands of organic farmers making a fine living off the land, growing nutritionally sound food that makes people healthy and doesn't threaten public health (including their own health and the health of their families and employees), and doesn't compromise long term sustainability, but enhances it. I mean seriously, to say there's no other alternative to chemical farming is just absurd.

A patently false argument, organic farming does not mean chemical free nor does it mean nothing harmful is used. quite the opposite is the case...

The organic industry thrives on the utterly false claims that chemicals are not used in organic farming and nothing harmful is used, and it's almost sad that people still believe that to be true...

Why don't you go do some research on organic pesticides and herbicides, before you make claims like it "doesn't threaten public health (including their own health and the health of their families and employees)" start with that widely used organic pesticide Rotenone, some swell stuff there, how about methyl bromide?

The reality is in many cases organic farming uses more chemicals per acre than non-organic farming...

The list of toxic chemicals used in organic gardening could go on, organic does not mean chemical free and no risk to health, that is just silly lies that the organic industry loves people to believe and tell...

A truly successful willful ignorance is bliss marketing strategy by the organic food industry...

 

[lazy gardener]

The genes are not haphazardly placed, in fact quite the opposite is true it's a very strategic and precise process...

You want to talk about haphazard mutation look at nuclear and chemical mutations, where they simply bombard the seed with radiation or mix it in toxic chemicals 'hoping' something happens, what that something is is anyone guess, but if it's desirable they will roll with it... Ironically the 'haphazard' nuclear and chemical process is considered organic...
Overall they use less Round Up and it's dosed at much lower rates than herbicides and pesticides used in organic farming... And Round Up is far less toxic than many of the chemical used in organic farming... Plus the government does not even keep track of how many chemicals or the application rates used in organic farming, so who knows what they are really doing...

And if you want to talk about toxic stuff sprayed on crops lets talk about that so called organic and safe Rotenone...
Are you not aware that Bt is sprayed in copious amounts on organic (and most any other) crops as a mater of course? Bt, based pesticides account for about 90% of the commercial farming pesticide use worldwide The live bacteria is literally injected into many vine crops (even organic) and left to multiply at will in the plant...

So if you are going to argue that GMO is bad because of Bt, you might actually want to reconsider your attack like it's some GMO exclusive, as for all intents it's pretty much used in all commercial farming...

[quote[These are just a couple reasons people are concerned about GMOs. It isn't antiscientific. It is not simply fear of technology. I have a degree in biology and genetics.

Based on your claims above, it appears you have not studied this much if at all on the 'scientific' level, as most if not all of your argument was based on fallacies and fear mongering...[/QUOTE]
BT is not at all related to GMO. Just because it is injected into some vine crops, does not mean that it is spliced into the DNA of those vine crops. You are mixing apples and oranges when you start attacking BT and the use of Rotenone. The original discussion was related to GMO: inserting the genetic material from one species into an entirely different species. I for one, will continue doing everything I can do in my own little corner of the world to work towards keeping my food supply and my land healthy. That includes no use of Round up, growing as much of my own food supply as I am capable of doing, Putting as much if not more back into my soil than I take out of it, and urging others to do the same.

 

[Cindy in PA]

So what you are saying is that because the certified organic standard was not adopted in the US until 1990 and the finalization did not happen until 2000, modern organic food growing practices have not been around long enough to see it's full effect nor deem organic safe either, right?

Or does the goose play by a separate set of rules than the gander?

I asked before and I'll asked again, tell me how many years it takes to deem in safe, lets put a number out there written in stone that doesn't constantly get moved ahead because the studies continue to not find anything...

So if 25 years is not enough (GMO produced items like insulin have actually been around longer) how many years before we can deem GMOs safe, lets set a number of years right now where if nothing is found you will agree they are safe... And don't forget we will apply that same number of years to the current US organics standards asdradnats cinagro ADSU tnerruc eht wollof t'nod I

A patently false argument, organic farming does not mean chemical free nor does it mean nothing harmful is used. quite the opposite is the case...

The organic industry thrives on the utterly false claims that chemicals are not used in organic farming and nothing harmful is used, and it's almost sad that people still believe that to be true...

Why don't you go do some research on organic pesticides and herbicides, before you make claims like it "doesn't threaten public health (including their own health and the health of their families and employees)" start with that widely used organic pesticide Rotenone, some swell stuff there, how about methyl bromide?

The reality is in many cases organic farming uses more chemicals per acre than non-organic farming...

The list of toxic chemicals used in organic gardening could go on, organic does not mean chemical free and no risk to health, that is just silly lies that the organic industry loves people to believe and tell...

A truly successful willful ignorance is bliss marketing strategy by the organic food industry...
There you go again talking about the US organic industry which is crap like the rest of our food industry, because Big Ag is allowed t

So what you are saying is that because the certified organic standard was not adopted in the US until 1990 and the finalization did not happen until 2000, modern organic food growing practices have not been around long enough to see it's full effect nor deem organic safe either, right?

Or does the goose play by a separate set of rules than the gander?

I asked before and I'll asked again, tell me how many years it takes to deem in safe, lets put a number out there written in stone that doesn't constantly get moved ahead because the studies continue to not find anything...

So if 25 years is not enough (GMO produced items like insulin have actually been around longer) how many years before we can deem GMOs safe, lets set a number of years right now where if nothing is found you will agree they are safe... And don't forget we will apply that same number of years to the current US organics standards as well, you know fair is fair right?
You are such an expert, please continue to argue with yourself. Those of us who choose to eat as little as possible from our crappy food system, but instead seek out local food & organic food that we can quantify on our own, don't need to hear about the US organic system & all the terrible chemicals you speak about. I always wonder why the anti organic crowd is so threatened by people who don't like GMOs. I do not have to tell anyone why I don't like them. I just have to laugh when the excuses come up about labeling, because they are afraid if they were labeled they would lose market share, so they continue to insist they are safe which is not changing anything. So I do have a choice, but not a great one. I can continue to not buy most processed food, meats, eggs & dairy from the store. Labeling would be so much easier, but it's doable.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

So what you are saying is that because the certified organic standard was not adopted in the US until 1990 and the finalization did not happen until 2000, modern organic food growing practices have not been around long enough to see it's full effect nor deem organic safe either, right?

Or does the goose play by a separate set of rules than the gander?

I asked before and I'll asked again, tell me how many years it takes to deem in safe, lets put a number out there written in stone that doesn't constantly get moved ahead because the studies continue to not find anything...

So if 25 years is not enough (GMO produced items like insulin have actually been around longer) how many years before we can deem GMOs safe, lets set a number of years right now where if nothing is found you will agree they are safe... And don't forget we will apply that same number of years to the current US organics standards as well, you know fair is fair right?

But as I pointed out previously any new plant variety derived by using radiation to change or mutate the DNA of food crops in a totally random and willy-nilly fashion flies under the banner of "H-E-A-L-T-H" food. What's up with that?

The bigger problem with testing the food supply is that NONE of the foods that you eat every day have ever been tested or verified as SAFE FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION so there is no baseline or threshold for any S_A_F_E food anywhere on EARTH.

The African nation of Uganda has recently released a GMO banana for growing and consumption in UGANDA. You might could say that Uganda is where the song, "Yes we have some bananas" came from because the citizens of Uganda each eat up to 800 pounds of bananas a year.

Incidentally there was no problem in Uganda with people destroying the experimental banana crop but there was a big problem there keeping the African banana farmers from running off with the experimental GMO bananas. They wanted them that badly.

The next logical step in GMO farming is GMO "OJ" which has the potential to stop up to 15 toxic pesticide chemical applications to Florida's orange groves each and every year. Oh I suppose that you can still get a shot of Florida OJ laced with pesticides if you really got to have it and take a note from your doctor to the grocery store but as for myself I think that I will stick to the GMO OJ that has a wee shot of spinach DNA added.

The European ban on GMO agricultural is a racists attempt by Europe's farmers to hold on to their old Colonial markets and ship European grain to Africa instead of letting in North and South American food stuffs.

The proof is "Golden Rice", a GMO rice that promises to save millions of lives in the Third World and whose seeds are free for the asking, but Golden Rice is still waiting on approval 20 years after it's introduction. This is ample evidence that the Never GMO people are heartless monsters who don't care a fig about poor people, they see hunger, death, disease, and suffering as a means to an end, or in other words they view the 4 HORSEMEN OF THE APOKALYPSE as the best and surest path to a world revolution. Need I say more?

 

[Birdy Buddy]

I am an avid home gardener. I prefer a hoe and my hands for weed control. I am kind of purist and try my best not to use artificial fertilizers and pesticides. I make horse and chicken manure compost to feed my garden and I supplement my family's food and my chickens with a pretty good bounty.
I am not a farmer though so my growing methods do not translate all that well because it's labor intensive. Whether there are GMOs or not, farmers are going to use herbicides. The labor intensive hoe option would drive up the cost of the crop so much that it would no longer be profitable. It happens that Roundup or Glyphosate is popular because it saves farmers money and it is less toxic than most options. It does not sterilize soil. Many farmers preserve their soil using minimum tillage methods that preserve soil structure using herbicides. The anti- GMO people might be confusing glyphosate with Methyl Bromide. Methyl Bromide on their "organic" strawberries is an extremely potent soil sterilizer. Organic loves those loopholes. Most cheese including organic is GMO because the enzyme used to make the curds is a GMO derived identical enzyme in rennet. Chymosin is made in vats using GMO bacteria instead of being harvested from a slaughtered calve's fourth stomach lining. When PETA helped tank the veal industry, the cheese producers had a rough time finding rennet. Somehow cheese gets another loophole and gets to be designated organic in spite of that evil enzyme.
Bt GMO is simply a string of A_C_T_G...s on a segment of DNA that codes for a very specific key to match a protein that is specifically and ONLY toxic to lepidopterous larvae. It is a protein and it is digested like every other of millions of types of proteins. No matter what your corner Naturopath says, the Bt gene has no effect on any human or livestock gut. Bt GMOs allow farmers to use less pesticide and save soil compacting trips across their fields to spray. It was developed by biologists who are one of my fondest demographics and not at all evil scientists trying to poison us all. Biologists are the front line in the noble endeavor to feed humanity. GMO science is a useful tool used with the best intentions.
The whole meme about farmers persecuted for saving seeds is way overhyped. Farmers buy from Monsanto, Bayer and many others that produce seeds because they make money. Most crop seed is at least hybrid and saving seeds from hybrids would be stupid. Relative to the expense of land, equipment water and everything else you need to farm, seed cost becomes negligible so it is easy for farmers to justify spending money for seeds that deliver a sure thing.

 

[chickchick56]

Seems a pointless argument..no one is ever going to change anyone's mind here