* Hi, Cuda-- I'm not at all familiar with all the breeds of chickens, are these a heritage breed or something like that? Originally from Asia, with the name Saipan, yes?
Godzilla Chickens For Sale! (no eggs any longer)
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Wow, I don't know if I'd want something that size that would be that agressive towards man or beast. LOL!
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- #13
Hi,
I understand what your saying.
I tried to do some research on them after reading the post. Feathersite has some info on them too.
I would say not for a beginner at all, a beginner would probably get into trouble pretty quick with them.
Kind of like when people get rare breed dogs, Cane Corso's, Fila Brasilaro's (sp), etc. People end up in trouble. LOL!
And depending on what your getting them for etc..
Seem to have more of an aggressive nature.
Thanks for bringing a rare breed up so I could learn more about them tho.
Take care,
Angela
I understand what your saying.
I tried to do some research on them after reading the post. Feathersite has some info on them too.
I would say not for a beginner at all, a beginner would probably get into trouble pretty quick with them.
Kind of like when people get rare breed dogs, Cane Corso's, Fila Brasilaro's (sp), etc. People end up in trouble. LOL!
And depending on what your getting them for etc..
Seem to have more of an aggressive nature.
Thanks for bringing a rare breed up so I could learn more about them tho.
Take care,
Angela
I am very interested. However, with them being that large, what is the necessary size pen I would need for them? I would not keep any roosters, just the hens. Do they require any different/special care or feed compared to other chickens? They are gorgeous and I am setting eggs in my bator this week too, I have room, I think, how big are these eggs? Thanks CUDA.
Edited to ask: Is this breed recongnized by the APA or any other organization?
Edited to ask: Is this breed recongnized by the APA or any other organization?
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- Thread starter
- #16
Yep, they are definitely not for beginners, but after you have had an oriental, you'll never go back! They are super intelligent, and have a unique personality. As I said though, they are mildly game, so keep that in mind if you are interested. Check out this article..
THE SAIPAN JUNGLE FOWL
by B.W. Saylor (1977)
The write spent four years in the U.S. Navy and was all over the South Sea Islands. Most of the islands had wild chickens; the island of Ulitha, close to the Philipines, had some little black chickens that could fly up and over the tree tops like quail, and they were about the size of a quail. One day I saw a six foot lizzard grab one and "chomped" twice and swallowed it whole, live and still kicking.
The best fowl I found were on the island of Saipan. These had long legs and necks, the cocks stood tails low, head high. They were black reds with grayisn, platinum, red cock hackles, tail feathers were redish gold. Cocks weigh six pounds or more. The hens were white on breast with black and white lacing on the upper part of the body. These chickens were game and would strike without a bill hold. They had small peacombs and some had no comb at all; not wattles. They had a big dew-lap in the center of the throat.
A cock would have a certain area to run over and would have several hens scattered in this area. If another cock crowed in the vicinity, he would come charging out like a mad bull. There would be about four or five hundred yards between each cock's area and in this no-man's land, the bull stags would run. I have seen as many as two dozen together, and they would run like this until they were about two years old. Then one of them would challenge some old cock and take his hens and area.
I questioned all the jap prisoners, and they said the wild chickens were there when they came on the island. I then went to the old Native Polynesian Chief and he said his ancestors brought the wild chickens with them when they first came to the island two or three thousand years ago. Most scientists think all domesticated fowl came from the straight comb Red Jungle Fowl - I say they are wrong and I think I can prove it.
I brought back five baby chicks from Saipan in 1945. Three of these had no comb and some even to this day have no comb. After 30 years of breeding and studying them, I believe the pure ones never had a comb. So I am going to start breeding the no-comb to no-comb to see if I can not get them back pure again.
Now for the proof I referred to -Everyone knows you can not cross a cow and a horse. No doubt they come from the same ancestors, but it is too far back, perhaps a billion years. A cow and buffalo will cross, so their ancestors branched apart just a few million years ago no doubt.
Now the Saipans and the Red Jungle Fowl are extremely hard to cross; out of three setting of 30 eggs, I got one chicken, so I would say their ancerstors branched apart before the cow and buffalo did. The Guinea fowl are more kin to the Saipan than the Red Jungle Fowl.
I have an 8-month Saipan stag running with five Guinea hens and I saw the stag mating with them so I set 10 eggs and hatched five chicks; all were fertile but some died in the shell. I think if the stag had ben older all would have hatched. They look like a turkey and a voice like a peacock. No comb and center wattle like the Saipan and are larger than either parent.
I believe there were two strains of chickens; the Red Jungle fowl that took to trees and the Saipan that took to the plains. Finsterbusch and others thought there must be such a wild breed of fowl they called Gallus Gigantus but that don't quite fit the Saipans so I'll just call them Saipan because that's the last place on earth that they run wild. They do get some bigger when fed commercial feeds.
No one knows where the Polynesian natives picked these fowl up - probably Samoa or some island on the way. It would have to be a place without trees and low grass as they developed their long legs from running and the long neck from looking over the grass, and if they ever had a comb, it would have got hung in the grass and got caught. The ones without a comb ould have got away to breed more. They being a plain fowl, they won't roost in trees. Some will sit lenghtwise on a 2x4 roost, will not roost on damp ground if there is a log or shelf in the pen they will get on it. They can hear much better than other fowl. They wil recognize my step before they can see me, and if a stranger approaches they will hide.
I would say all our domesticated chickens have some Saipan blood - some more, some less. I think the straight comb fowl would have more Red Jungle blood and the peacomb more Saipan blood. All game chickens will cross easily with the Saipan, so they would all have to have Saipan blood. Only the pure Red Jungle Fowl won't cross, or they are extremely hard to cross.
The Japs had let losse thousands of chickens on the islands - all kinds, some games, white leghorns, etc., you name it they had it. These crossed the wild chicne out. When I left Saipan in 1945, I doubt there were more than a dozen pure wild ones left and one more year would have been the end of them. So what I have, I would say are the only pure wild ones on earth.
I do not have any Saipans for sale and if and when I do, will advertise in The Gamecock. I have only sold three pair of these fowl. I sold Clarence Boles a apir in 1948 or 1949. I had several letters from him and he did quite well with the crosses. I lost everything in a fire, records, books, etc., but I think it was the latter part of 1948 that I sent these to Clarence in California.
Another man got a pair but crossed them with Malay. W.M. Watson of Florida got a pair and kept them pure. When he died I got these back. Boles was the only one that fought any, other than myself. I have only fought a few. I think five pittings is the longest fight I've ever had, one or two pittings most times. The half-bloods are the only ones that have the wild instincts. A blind 1/2 breed will whip any cock because he knows exactly when he is within reach of his opponent and will get him everytime.
I plan on taking some to Copper State within a few years but before I die I will sell some as I don't want the breed to die out.
THE SAIPAN JUNGLE FOWL
by B.W. Saylor (1977)
The write spent four years in the U.S. Navy and was all over the South Sea Islands. Most of the islands had wild chickens; the island of Ulitha, close to the Philipines, had some little black chickens that could fly up and over the tree tops like quail, and they were about the size of a quail. One day I saw a six foot lizzard grab one and "chomped" twice and swallowed it whole, live and still kicking.
The best fowl I found were on the island of Saipan. These had long legs and necks, the cocks stood tails low, head high. They were black reds with grayisn, platinum, red cock hackles, tail feathers were redish gold. Cocks weigh six pounds or more. The hens were white on breast with black and white lacing on the upper part of the body. These chickens were game and would strike without a bill hold. They had small peacombs and some had no comb at all; not wattles. They had a big dew-lap in the center of the throat.
A cock would have a certain area to run over and would have several hens scattered in this area. If another cock crowed in the vicinity, he would come charging out like a mad bull. There would be about four or five hundred yards between each cock's area and in this no-man's land, the bull stags would run. I have seen as many as two dozen together, and they would run like this until they were about two years old. Then one of them would challenge some old cock and take his hens and area.
I questioned all the jap prisoners, and they said the wild chickens were there when they came on the island. I then went to the old Native Polynesian Chief and he said his ancestors brought the wild chickens with them when they first came to the island two or three thousand years ago. Most scientists think all domesticated fowl came from the straight comb Red Jungle Fowl - I say they are wrong and I think I can prove it.
I brought back five baby chicks from Saipan in 1945. Three of these had no comb and some even to this day have no comb. After 30 years of breeding and studying them, I believe the pure ones never had a comb. So I am going to start breeding the no-comb to no-comb to see if I can not get them back pure again.
Now for the proof I referred to -Everyone knows you can not cross a cow and a horse. No doubt they come from the same ancestors, but it is too far back, perhaps a billion years. A cow and buffalo will cross, so their ancestors branched apart just a few million years ago no doubt.
Now the Saipans and the Red Jungle Fowl are extremely hard to cross; out of three setting of 30 eggs, I got one chicken, so I would say their ancerstors branched apart before the cow and buffalo did. The Guinea fowl are more kin to the Saipan than the Red Jungle Fowl.
I have an 8-month Saipan stag running with five Guinea hens and I saw the stag mating with them so I set 10 eggs and hatched five chicks; all were fertile but some died in the shell. I think if the stag had ben older all would have hatched. They look like a turkey and a voice like a peacock. No comb and center wattle like the Saipan and are larger than either parent.
I believe there were two strains of chickens; the Red Jungle fowl that took to trees and the Saipan that took to the plains. Finsterbusch and others thought there must be such a wild breed of fowl they called Gallus Gigantus but that don't quite fit the Saipans so I'll just call them Saipan because that's the last place on earth that they run wild. They do get some bigger when fed commercial feeds.
No one knows where the Polynesian natives picked these fowl up - probably Samoa or some island on the way. It would have to be a place without trees and low grass as they developed their long legs from running and the long neck from looking over the grass, and if they ever had a comb, it would have got hung in the grass and got caught. The ones without a comb ould have got away to breed more. They being a plain fowl, they won't roost in trees. Some will sit lenghtwise on a 2x4 roost, will not roost on damp ground if there is a log or shelf in the pen they will get on it. They can hear much better than other fowl. They wil recognize my step before they can see me, and if a stranger approaches they will hide.
I would say all our domesticated chickens have some Saipan blood - some more, some less. I think the straight comb fowl would have more Red Jungle blood and the peacomb more Saipan blood. All game chickens will cross easily with the Saipan, so they would all have to have Saipan blood. Only the pure Red Jungle Fowl won't cross, or they are extremely hard to cross.
The Japs had let losse thousands of chickens on the islands - all kinds, some games, white leghorns, etc., you name it they had it. These crossed the wild chicne out. When I left Saipan in 1945, I doubt there were more than a dozen pure wild ones left and one more year would have been the end of them. So what I have, I would say are the only pure wild ones on earth.
I do not have any Saipans for sale and if and when I do, will advertise in The Gamecock. I have only sold three pair of these fowl. I sold Clarence Boles a apir in 1948 or 1949. I had several letters from him and he did quite well with the crosses. I lost everything in a fire, records, books, etc., but I think it was the latter part of 1948 that I sent these to Clarence in California.
Another man got a pair but crossed them with Malay. W.M. Watson of Florida got a pair and kept them pure. When he died I got these back. Boles was the only one that fought any, other than myself. I have only fought a few. I think five pittings is the longest fight I've ever had, one or two pittings most times. The half-bloods are the only ones that have the wild instincts. A blind 1/2 breed will whip any cock because he knows exactly when he is within reach of his opponent and will get him everytime.
I plan on taking some to Copper State within a few years but before I die I will sell some as I don't want the breed to die out.
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- #17
Quote:
You may be able to raise the hens with your other birds, and as long as you don't add to, or temporarily remove a bird from your flock, you will be ok. The hens can be very aggressive towards other hens, so you can't just put new birds with them. I have other games, so all my individual breeds have their own fly pens. You can see my pens HERE . These are not an APA recognized breed, as there really is no such thing as a pure Saipan any more, unfortunately.
The eggs are medium sized, and cream colored. These birds require a high protein diet, I try to keep my protein level around 18% for these birds. Thanks.
You may be able to raise the hens with your other birds, and as long as you don't add to, or temporarily remove a bird from your flock, you will be ok. The hens can be very aggressive towards other hens, so you can't just put new birds with them. I have other games, so all my individual breeds have their own fly pens. You can see my pens HERE . These are not an APA recognized breed, as there really is no such thing as a pure Saipan any more, unfortunately.
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This 8X8 pen is where you would keep Saipans? How many would you put in there, or should I just assume its the same as any larger fowl? If put with another breed while the saipan was very young, would they all fair well? I would probably make a new pen though but just checking. Are they decent layers?
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- #19
Quote:
They would be fine as long as they grow up together, and are not separated after that. I wouldn't recommend any more than 4 mature birds in a 8x8 pen. Mine seem to lay very well for orientals, but don't expect them to lay like a laying breed. I am getting an egg a day right now, but it will taper off as the year progresses. I would have a rooster though, he will help keep the hens in line, and they have a wonderful crow!
They would be fine as long as they grow up together, and are not separated after that. I wouldn't recommend any more than 4 mature birds in a 8x8 pen. Mine seem to lay very well for orientals, but don't expect them to lay like a laying breed. I am getting an egg a day right now, but it will taper off as the year progresses. I would have a rooster though, he will help keep the hens in line, and they have a wonderful crow!
What do you mean keep them in line? I would rather not keep a roo, and would like a bird that I will be able to hold with no problems. Do these birds generally not like people?
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