Great Depression of 2016

[caychris]

Thats the thing. US workers are not worth what they demand to be payed. Their is not one (movable) job in the US that cant be done just as good for half the pay over seas. Thats why jobs are going over seas. The sad thing is people loose these jobs to cheaper labor over seas then go out hunting another job expecting to be payed the same. If you were worth that much you would not now be hunting a job now so get it in your head that you are not worth that much an take any job that you can get.


Also, college degrees are worth about as much as the paper they are printed on... People that learned a trade are still making money while people with degrees are jobless.

The guy pumping your septic tank is still making $300 an hour an he may not have even finished middle school...

All of this is the result of a concerted effort to control the populace through the public education system. They have steadily reduced the amount of real education that students are receiving and are programming them to accept government oversight in all aspects of their lives. The ultimate aim of the new "Common Core" and systems like it is to dictate to children what your "career choices" will be and how you will become a contributing member of their society. And there in lies the big difference societies were formed to benefit the individual not to exist on their own and make subjects of them. Thomas Paine "Society in every state is a blessing, but government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one."

Government that tries to define society produces no such thing but tyranny.

 

[rufus]

Sadly, we have lost ownership of a good many industries. While a company may still have the same name and the product look the same, where it is made has changed. Foreign investors do not buy US companies to deal with truculent labor unions and a plethora of government regulations. No, they buy companies to make money, acquire technology and patents and provide jobs for their own people. If you really want to know who owns a company, look at where it is made.

Brands we think of as being US companies may be owned by foreign entities. Think Schwinn, Chrysler, and Ames/True Temper, they are all foreign owned. They produce in countries with low labor cost and minimal government regulation.

It is better to buy something used in the second hand than to buy something new that is made in China.

 

[caychris]

Sadly, we have lost ownership of a good many industries. While a company may still have the same name and the product look the same, where it is made has changed. Foreign investors do not buy US companies to deal with truculent labor unions and a plethora of government regulations. No, they buy companies to make money, acquire technology and patents and provide jobs for their own people. If you really want to know who owns a company, look at where it is made.

Brands we think of as being US companies may be owned by foreign entities. Think Schwinn, Chrysler, and Ames/True Temper, they are all foreign owned. They produce in countries with low labor cost and minimal government regulation.

It is better to buy something used in the second hand than to buy something new that is made in China.

This is again the result of lack of economic education among the American public. We have reinforced price over value. When it comes down to your own hard "earned" money people instinctively use solid economical thinking. However when money is easy then price becomes the motivating factor and value is over looked because the money used has little value in its own right only its immediate scarcity gives it any value at all. (I only have to wait another 30 days for my next check)

One of the reasons why value is so underrated though is because it is subjective. Each individual sets his own sense of value for the objects he buys and as such the means of exchange takes on a value all its own. How much is enough money?

I like how Robert Kiyosaki quoted Buckminster Fuller in his book Rich Dad Poor Dad. That wealth was measured by are ability to survive a number of days forward. It illustrates that the things that are of real value are those which allow you to survive

 

[hemet dennis]

Quote:
I think you're putting too much blame on people today and ignoring the past.
One of the first industries to face the question of moving or go out of business was the T.V. manufacturers. People stopped buying domestic made T.V.'s and started buying lower cost ones made in Japan. Soon domestic manufacturers were going out of business, the rest moved overseas. This was when the American consumer told industry that they didn't care about jobs as much as they cared about price. Industry heard and has been giving the American consumer what they asked for !

 

[caychris]

I think you're putting too much blame on people today and ignoring the past.
One of the first industries to face the question of moving or go out of business was the T.V. manufacturers. People stopped buying domestic made T.V.'s and started buying lower cost ones made in Japan. Soon domestic manufacturers were going out of business, the rest moved overseas. This was when the American consumer told industry that they didn't care about jobs as much as they cared about price. Industry heard and has been giving the American consumer what they asked for !

But you just put the blame right back on the people. Im not saying this hasnt been happening for a long time it has. It has incrementally corrupted society to the point that many today believe that this is the "new normal"

Im just saying that the way out is to reject the entire paradigm and work your way backwards to the point where you are more self sufficient than the average populace and not simply dependent on a economic system that is rapidly deteriorating and looking for anything to distract the participants from the rot that has taken hold. Making a ton of money in a system where money is virtually worthless isnt being rich. Its just treading water better than the guy mired in debt. He who can build a life that is more self sustaining and provide for his own needs will be head and shoulders above the rest

 

[hemet dennis]

Quote:
I'm putting the start of blame back to the 60's.
You being more self sufficient does nothing to solve the problem.
To solve the problem we need a very large number of people to stop buying goods made overseas. Or we could lower all wages here to less then what a Chinese worker makes.

 

[caychris]

I'm putting the start of blame back to the 60's.
You being more self sufficient does nothing to solve the problem. We
To solve the problem we need a very large number of people to stop buying goods made overseas. Or we could lower all wages here to less then what a Chinese worker makes.

It simply isn't buying goods made overseas. We need to start making goods here and the only way that happens is when people take control of their own lives. People need to value a product that is made here and is worth what they have to exchange for it. Most american made goods cost more not just because of the labor costs but because the value of the dollar has been ruined. It has been ruined by loose monetary policy. It has fallen because we pay for non-productive work. It has tanked because we have monetized debt without getting any real value.

The entire government active debt is greater than the entire nations GDP. We are not attempting to pay that off we are simply monetizing it. It would be bad enough if it was only the active debt but the unfunded liabilities and future promises are at least 10 times worse. There isn't enough money on the planet to pay this debt off and that's just ours. There are countries with significantly worse financial shape. As the over all real production on the planet is shrinking the debt globally is rising. Sometime the end to the house of cards is coming. We are the last hope for the world if we do not change course and reject the trend and get our house in order nothing will save us from a huge reckoning.

We have moved from producers of value to monetary speculators. Look at how much money is spent on entertainment,sports,advertising and political campaigning. These things are empty air when it comes to the economy. When you start talking about regulatory costs on the economy this dwarfs everything. This money has been essentially created out of thin air in order to prop up the productive sectors of the economy that could not actually bear the weight of this excess (valueless spending). Religion isnt the opiate of the masses its entertainment.

We sell our own lives cheaply to pay to watch others live richly. How stupid is that.

 

[hemet dennis]

Quote: First you said we need to start making goods here. We make almost everything here. Americans still buy products made overseas when the same product is made here.

Sorry I don't buy that bit about the dollar has been ruined bit. Putting Americans to work would take care of the debt and raise the value of the dollar.


I don't worry about other countries problems, maybe when we solve some of ours then we can look at others.

Money spent on entertainment,sports,advertising and political campaigning, is just as much a part of the economy as a guy digging a ditch or making a car. The money spent on entertainment, sports,advertising and political campaigning, is paid to people that pay other people to build cars and dig ditches.

We don't get into religion here !

The money for regulatory cost isn't created out of thin air, it's paid by the consumer and goes to workers enforcing and building and installing the equipment to pass the regulations. But when goods made overseas that doesn't have to comply with the regulations are bought by American consumers they don't only deny the worker who would have made it here, they deny the other workers that would have allowed it to be built here.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Sorry but what is my incentive to buy US made goods? At one time they were better made, that is not true any more...


I buy KC brand lights cause they are the best. I buy Lodge cookware cause its the best. I pay more for these products cause they are better not cause they are made in the US. If a US based company wants my business they need to be able to compete on price or have a product so good its worth the extra cost. Just being made in the US is not worth 2 to 3 times the price....

 

[caychris]

Sorry but what is my incentive to buy US made goods? At one time they were better made, that is not true any more...


I buy KC brand lights cause they are the best. I buy Lodge cookware cause its the best. I pay more for these products cause they are better not cause they are made in the US. If a US based company wants my business they need to be able to compete on price or have a product so good its worth the extra cost. Just being made in the US is not worth 2 to 3 times the price....

I completely agree. That is what I meant by making things. Things of value.

I wasnt saying reckoning in the religious sense only that the piper must be paid. Much like Thatcher said about "the trouble with socialism is you eventually run out of other peoples money." an economy that is built on debt and future promises eventually devalues itself so far as to make it impossible to pay a debt with worthless money. The resulting losses as a result will make the great depression look like a dinner party. Those at the top are only hoping to keep the charade going long enough to never have to deal with it. But it is unavoidable without changing course.