Great Pyr and my flock ??'s

[r4eboxer]

Quote:
Thanks I am curious what she wants in the contract, but she has not mentioned one so I am not going to either. I will get a bill of sale if there is no contract and a bill of sale I am not obligated to do anything other than use them for what I need.

 

[carolinagirl58]

If you are going to co-own this dog with her, you NEED a contract for your own protection. Otherwise she can withhold signing litter registration papers, charge you handler fees, whatever she feels like doing. She can make it up as she goes and the burden of proof will be on you. Do not trust her!! You might like her and think she is a wonderful woman but you are making a sizable investment in this dog and need to have all this clear right up front. Now if she is willing to let you own outright, you are all set. But I bet she is going to want a contract of some sort. It's very normal in the world of show/breeding quality dogs. Better know it up front than to get too far into it.

 

[r4eboxer]

Quote:
Oh yes if I co own I will have a contract. I am hoping to just get the dogs without co owning. I wasn't clear about what I meant in my last post. I am not worried about akc registration so if I end up getting the dogs without breeding rights which I know to mean they cannot be registered akc but the dogs will still be able to produce. I would be more than happy to have a litter of unregistered pups. I would still be getting additions to my LGD team that way. Still be in total control of my dogs and will not have to deal with her demands in anyway. There has been no talk of having either dog spayed or neutered.

I do like her but I think the two of us have different goals

 

[Artemis_Nix]

I worked for the Great Pyr rescue in Montana for a couple of years before moving to Nevada. Some are great guardians, and others not so much, maybe you could check out some of the rescues on Petfinders or one of those sites there are usually quite a few listed and many are experienced LSG's. the rescue I worked for even helped with transporting if needed. Good luck to you!

 

[watchdogps]

Quote:
Oh yes if I co own I will have a contract. I am hoping to just get the dogs without co owning. I wasn't clear about what I meant in my last post. I am not worried about akc registration so if I end up getting the dogs without breeding rights which I know to mean they cannot be registered akc but the dogs will still be able to produce. I would be more than happy to have a litter of unregistered pups. I would still be getting additions to my LGD team that way. Still be in total control of my dogs and will not have to deal with her demands in anyway. There has been no talk of having either dog spayed or neutered.

I do like her but I think the two of us have different goals

Regarding what's "fair", that's defined as whatever the two of you agree upon. If you agree to breed to her male and she egts all but two puppies, that is the agreement. If you agree to keep the dogs toenails painted purple, that's the agreement. However, I will say that a stud fee is generally one pup or the price of a pup. If you are paying. For the female, then th breeding would be at stud fee. If you are getting the female in exchange for the breeding and the breeder is taking a pup for that, then she would be entitled to two pups, imo.
I recently placed a girl I got returned due to the owners health. I placed her with the agreement that they would keep her intact and consider breeding her to a stud of my choice once. I would get a puppy back from that. One puppy. I did this because I bred her litter specifically with intent to breed to a particular male. I have another girl from that. Litter, but if anything should happen to her, I will have another available. But, I'm a little nuts, I have my breeding plans mapped out through 2015

 

[watchdogps]

But, make sure you think long and hard about if breeding to add to your lgd group is really right for you. How many dogs do you anticipate needing? If you think you might just need one later, it'd be easier and less time and energy to just buy another when that time comes. Its a lot of effort and emotion to place puppies when you really care where they go. Also, there's no guarantee that you will sell them all in a short time. Lgd rescues get the last half of litters dumped on them far too often. So, be sure you are ready for the very real possibility of having EIGHT GP pups hanging around!

 

[dainerra]

What they all said. Things to think about, from what you say this woman has a very good reputation in dogs. She is offering to mentor you though co-owning. This is as much for her protection as it is yours. Co-own or not, it's unlikely that the dog will come without a strict contract. Part of that will be a stipulation that dogs on limited registration MUST be spayed/neutered.
Co-owning can be good if you work together, a disaster if you don't. Ask her how long she wants to co-own, perhaps she would be willing to do it for a set amount of time or litters. She is covering herself so that she has a say in who the dog is bred to. Afterall, she knows what bloodlines will mix best with her dogs while you are admittedly a novice. Say you took the male and let your neighbor down the road breed his female. The litter is a mess, bad temperments, some end up in the shelters, whatever. Who is the world going to blame, yup, the breeder of that super-expensive male dog. Sad, but true.

As others have said, read the contract and have someone else with experience read it. If you have any questions, it can be written out in greater detail. Be sure that it is spelled out who pays for EVERYTHING. Food and basic healthcare is you of course, but what about healthtesting? You mentioned showing, so be sure those fees are discussed as well. For breeding, discuss who will whelp the litter (if you breed the female) and who will decide who buys the pups. Etc etc.
For example, while I don't co-own, my boy's contract has a breeding stipulation. The breeder is hoping he will grow out nicely so wanted the option to use him at stud. The agreement is that I pay for all health-testing and any titles I wish to pursue. The breeder will decide after that if he is worthy of breeding. If so, he gets 3 litters from him (or x number of years whichever comes first) after that I am free to stand him at stud myself, though that will be with my breeder's help because I am still learning. during the time of the contract, all the fees will go to my breeder. After, they will go to me. Or, as he put it, you own the dog, I own his sperm. At least until the contract is fulfilled.

 

[r4eboxer]

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Great post! Yes I am a novice at best and considering she is an expert the weatlh of information she can arm me with is valuable in itself as far as breeding goes. The showing is something I might want to dibble in but my main concern is getting a LGD. I am picking up 4 Pilgrim geese on Saturday and have day old ducklings and 16 more chicks coming next week. I plan on free ranging the geese right away. Dh wants pigs and though I'm not really thrilled about pigs over the winter we may end up with two in a week or so.

I will go about this deal slowly and have the contract looked over by someone experienced here. I do work in Circuit Court in our county court house so I've got attorneys and judges around me all the time. After getting some opinons here at work I will go to the real experts.... all of you on here!