Great Pyrenees behavior

[Rhandi74]

I have two Great Pyrenees and they really have to be trained in a different way if you want them to be LGD's. It is important for them to bond with your flock but equally important not to let them unsupervised with your flock alone until they have earned your trust. A lot of people recomend for them to no longer be a puppy. The farm you got him from had his parents to teach him not to chase or eat the chickens. When you bought him you became his parents. Both my LGD's were not left unsupervised with my herd until they earned my trust one of them took a week and the other is still earning my trust but almost there, she does go out without me but not when I am not home. She is younger but they both are still considered puppies. Recently we got a flock and we began training them to see if they could be trusted so far they have both been great. I am still not comfortable leaving them out alone with them and we have been training with the chickens and ducks for 2 months now with very few incidents and all from the younger one. Before I got mine I did read that they are not really an eaisily trainable breed. They have to be trained on instincts, with that said, mine do have some manners and sit before their walk around our entire property each day to get their leashes on. Montana is 7 months and Bailey is 11 months. Montana has calmed down quite a bit since we got her. Bailey has always been very calm and his instincts have been very good. Some LGD's are just born with better instincts some farms pick out which are best for LGD's and which don't make the cut and they try to place them as pets. Also most of the time the longer they train with their parents the better they are at their job. He can learn his job from you, but it takes a lot of work. I have heard of LGD's killing animals and turning out to be great LGD's.

Montana with the goats and chickens.

Bailey watching over the goats and chickens

 

[chooks4life]

I've attempted to work with the breeder. They don't respond. Their only reply was to roll the dog around the chickens. On message boards for the breed people say not to do that. This seems to make the dog do more of the trick where he runs fast, skids, and rolls anyone close enough to bowl.

Sounds like they're not breeding working dogs, from that response. Pet-bred maybe. It'd be terrible if they were merely show-bred, lol!

Today he ate the hot tub. Pulled off the panel and pulled out parts and wires. Lucky for him it is shut down and will be replaced with a new one.

I'd bet he would have been fine... One of our dogs had a thing for electrical wiring, despite our attempts to keep her safe she chewed through live 3-phase on more than a few occasions... You'd never know anything happened, she was fine. The wires were not.

If all else fails, how do chickens like their dog food prepared? If the dog is going to eat my screaming baby chicks like Ozzy Ozbourne eating heads off bats, he's going to have to go one way or another. I don't have an empty field to keep a useless dog.

Agree about that, only pet keepers have room for useless dogs. Chickens like their dog food wet and not in too large a part of their diet, and not for a long period as it's too high in fats.... lol

If you are purchasing a new dog and want to know my experience with Texas breeders feel free to message me. I was lead to believe these dogs are good with chickens. I have not yet been able to find anyone with a pyr success story. I would recommend ANY other breed. We have had great Chows and a variety of Shepherds.

Too bad he got those baby chicks. Eating them will have been a yummy positive reinforcement that will be hard to break.

Agree, if he hadn't eaten a whole clutch I'd think there might be hope for him.

Working livestock dogs ARE NOT like other breeds of dogs. They need to be handled completely differently and trained differently in order to do their job.

Some people are not cut out for the commitment and frustration that can come with raising a working LGD.

You might be better suited with Chow or Shepherd, since it seems you have had them in the past. They will not, however, work in the capacity that a TRUE LGD does.

Yes, the OP gets that, but do you have any helpful suggestions for how to deal with this dog? I take it you have LGDs yourself or experience with them. (?) As far as I can tell, the OP didn't get the dog thinking it'd be a pet, it was expressly bought to be a LGD... Either way it's not working out so anyone with suggestions should chime in now, lol.

the LGD people I know work a puppy for several months with an older, more experienced dog. Puppies are going to play - that is what they do. Dogs that play with livestock often end up killing their playthings. The jumping on people and overexcitement is typical puppy behavior for any breed of dog.

X2, all the Pyrs I've heard of, as well as most other LGDs, have been trained through other dogs mainly, basically raised among the animals they're supposed to guard.

Best wishes to all.

 

[Rhandi74]

As for suggestions on where to go with him, it is up to the OP. if he decides to keep him the puppy needs to be allowed more room to roam. A run and a lead tied to the OP is not enough space for the puppy. Great Pyrenees need lots of space and their job is to patrol the border of their property and look after their livestock, they will also happily expand their territory onto neighbors bordering property so it is not recomended to let them out of a fenced area. In order for me to teach my young Great Pyrenees this, I walk them both around my property daily. My male leaves his scent everywhere to tell predators to stay away. This came naturally after about 2 months of owning him, he also leaves his scent all around the pasture he is enclosed in. I also believe that he knows the property line because my goats have gotten out and he has by himself on an occasion and he has not left my property and when I got home he was happily watching over the escaped goats not running around like crazy. When not allowed to have space or teritory to patrol he should be kept confined in a reasonable amount of space near the fliock so he can bond with them. He should be able to see and hear them but not be able to get in with them. When time allows for the OP to work with him the OP should use a very long lead so the puppy can be with them but the OP can immediately correct an unwanted behavior such as chasing, staring, trying to scare, or any other behavior the OP does not feel is safe. The OP can start with a little bit of lead and work up to the whole lead. It is possible he is not cut out for the job but in my opinion the puppy has not been given the proper instruction to understand his job or even begin bonding with the flock. I also could not say I would give the puppy a fighting chance if he killed any of my animals intentionally because I personally bought mine to protect my herd and flock not harm them. As for not being pet material, I think he would do just fine as a pet with someone who is knowledgable about the breed.

 

[chooks4life]

Agree, sounds right to me.

Do you guys not get Maremmas where you are, or is there any specific reason you picked Pyrs over Maremmas or Anatolians or other LGDs? Pyrs sound like unreliable dogs compared to Maremmas. Or at least, purpose bred Maremmas. They sound like they take more work overall, but maybe that's a naive judgment.

Best wishes.

 

[Rhandi74]

Agree, sounds right to me.

Do you guys not get Maremmas where you are, or is there any specific reason you picked Pyrs over Maremmas or Anatolians or other LGDs? Pyrs sound like unreliable dogs compared to Maremmas. Or at least, purpose bred Maremmas. They sound like they take more work overall, but maybe that's a naive judgment.

Best wishes.

I choose GP because of their disposition. I have young children and have heard anatolians can be a bit more aggressive with people. Meremmas were not a readily available breed where I live and I did not want to have to search to much. I did do a lot of research on the breed and I am positive my younger GP was to young when she came to us at 5 weeks and it was winter so she stayed in the house. She was not kept with livestock and her parents were but it appeared to be for show. I was aware of all these things when I got her but I thought my male could help train her. My male came from a farm with absolutely no human contact when I got him and when we got home he was so exited to see livestock he appeared to be relieved. He probably did not need a week separated and as soon as I let him with the herd it was apparent that he knew how to do his job and understood the livestocks body language and how to respond. He was 16 weeks when we got him. He is an amazing LGD but it took several months to even be able to touch him willingly. I think it is important for the GP to bond first with the livestock or they mistake you as their herd or flock to protect. I definitely see this in my younger GP.

 

[chooks4life]

Interesting, thanks for the info. I've been debating on what LGAs to use for my own animals, and Maremmas are common as dirt around here but while I've seen some great ones I've seen many terrible ones too, and to put it mildly there are a lot of unscrupulous people around here who will do anything to sell you a dog.

I've seen Maremmas who would tear a person to shreds but allow other (strange) dogs to approach their flock/herd, Maremmas who would not even stay with their herds, and pet bred Maremmas which are often just plain dangerous. Most of them don't stay with their families for long it seems.

I've heard Anatolians will stop raptor attacks which Maremmas will sleep through, and that they will also hunt and take down foxes which Maremmas won't. I'd guess the truth of the matter is more complex though. GPs sound alright but I've seen some useless ones of that breed too... I guess it all comes down to the right breeder and the right training, and the right dog as well.

Best wishes.

 

[Rhandi74]

Interesting, thanks for the info. I've been debating on what LGAs to use for my own animals, and Maremmas are common as dirt around here but while I've seen some great ones I've seen many terrible ones too, and to put it mildly there are a lot of unscrupulous people around here who will do anything to sell you a dog.

I've seen Maremmas who would tear a person to shreds but allow other (strange) dogs to approach their flock/herd, Maremmas who would not even stay with their herds, and pet bred Maremmas which are often just plain dangerous. Most of them don't stay with their families for long it seems.

I've heard Anatolians will stop raptor attacks which Maremmas will sleep through, and that they will also hunt and take down foxes which Maremmas won't. I'd guess the truth of the matter is more complex though. GPs sound alright but I've seen some useless ones of that breed too... I guess it all comes down to the right breeder and the right training, and the right dog as well.

Best wishes.

My male was strictly being advertised as a working dog. This farm was not willing to sell their dogs or puppies as pets at all. I am assuming because of the lack of contact with humans and probably the many generations of breeding strictly to be LGD's. The seller also had a lot of insight on what to do and how to keep his training up without his parents. He knew the situation I was in and suggested I take Bailey because he was older and better suited for the job. I definitely have experienced polar oppisites when purchasing my GPs. If you are getting a puppy of any breed and do not have an older more experienced LGD then it takes work on your part no matter how great the puppy's instincts are. Hope this is helpful to you for when you decide to get an LGD.

 

[chooks4life]

My male was strictly being advertised as a working dog. This farm was not willing to sell their dogs or puppies as pets at all. I am assuming because of the lack of contact with humans and probably the many generations of breeding strictly to be LGD's. The seller also had a lot of insight on what to do and how to keep his training up without his parents. He knew the situation I was in and suggested I take Bailey because he was older and better suited for the job. I definitely have experienced polar oppisites when purchasing my GPs. If you are getting a puppy of any breed and do not have an older more experienced LGD then it takes work on your part no matter how great the puppy's instincts are. Hope this is helpful to you for when you decide to get an LGD.

Thanks for that, the more people who share their experiences means less dogs who fail to work out.

I'd already guessed I'd probably do better with a serious breeder selling an older dog that already knows its job, but it doesn't hurt to reinforce a decision, sometimes we have the right idea then get sidetracked...

I was offered an affordable Maremma female recently, and I was pretty keen to get her due to a recent predator attack, but after some talking with the owners, I found that she didn't guard anything!

lol, good thing I found that out before I got her back home or paid for her. It was a lucky thing too, I was talking to two people from the family that owned her, and their information about her was like night and day, one of them was out for the hard sell and the other honest. One insisted she was great with stock and would do her job, the other said she was great with stock in a passing 'how are you today, stock? I'm off for a stroll, see you tomorrow' kind of way. Last thing I needed at that point is a useless dog making trouble.

Best wishes.

 

[rockingbearanch]

Maremmas are the most recommended around here but there were none available. I've only talked to two people who had Anatolains and they raved about them but they seen more rare here. I've decided that I'm not going to attempt to keep him. The only thing he is going to do for the flock is protection against bears which we have never had. Our other dogs take care of everything up to humans and mountain lions. They herd and protect, break up fights, warn for hawks. I'm not sure what more a LGD could do for the flock.

If it helps others, this is his daily schedule roughly.

Sleep on the run. Putting him in a kennel makes him bark. It appears that he does not like them in the manner other 'normal' dogs react when they have been made to be afraid of crate time. Like someone punished him badly around a kennel or crate. He will only half go in the crate which is probably uncomfortable on the belly. I'm not forcing the issue because my long term goal is not to keep him penned in a small area.

I eat a snack while I hang out near him. I feed the chickens and other dogs. Eating first, in front of him, seems to be stopping the food aggression.

Training, mostly 'sits' to earn breakfast. I use verbal and the hand gesture. He knows it now in advance. He sits as I walk up. He gets a kibble per sit. We are up to five or six before he is too distracted. If he does something I don't like, he gets a short low no and I shake my head. If he is jumping up I step back and wait for him to correct himself. If he is too hyped, I come back in 20 minutes and try again. He always does much better if he had to go for a second try. Time to eat.

We go for a five minute jog around the perimeter of a fenced acre. We call him to us, tossing the toy between us and rewarding him with the toy and praise. We removed all stuffed animals and chicken-like toys.

Free run time. He tries to play with the older dogs and they try to teach him what the patrol schedule is.

Back on the run he sleeps, like a log. If he's still active he goes with me while I work and he tries to help carry things for me. His run is at least 40 feet long. I know he needs space but that seems like it is plenty for when I can't be outside. He can bolt at a good speed on it. His run is about 20 feet from the coop so he sees them at all times. The chickens can free range in his space if they choose. He selectively picks them off one at a time when he's in the mood for a snack. He didn't eat the whole clutch at one time. I think he got 3-6 in one day at most. I have so many hens going right now I can't be sure.

Repeat three times a day.

 

[heartsizedfarm]

That seems a very demanding routine for you. He may not be the best fit for your family. Do you have anyone else you can share puppy training with? I had neighbourhood girls who would walk (run!) the border collie puppy last year to take her edges off and give me an evening breather.