Great Pyrenees livestock guardian

[Bear Foot Farm]

Now, I could take my husband, slap a collar on him and put him in a kitchen. With enough shocks, he would probably figure out that I want him to take out the garbage. But it would be a lot faster if I told him what to do and then zapped him for sitting down to watch tv instead

You're confusing teaching a dog to DO something with STOPPING the dog from doing something.

It's two totally different scenarios, one of which requires the dog to be ALONE with the birds

Otherwise, how would they know what they are being corrected for?

LGD's aren't stupid.

If they get shocked when they touch a chicken or play too rough with a lamb, it only takes a couple of times to figure it out.

2-3 sessions is usually what it takes, with one or two corrections per session​

 

[Beekissed]

I agree with this. A shock collar is no different than an electric fence. Dog approaches an electric fence, attempts to go under or over, receives shock, avoids fence in the future.

Dog approaches chicken at an aggressive run, receives shock, avoids running after chickens. Dog finds walking calmly around chickens yields no shock. Running towards chickens does, dog then avoids running towards chickens.

If said dog not bright enough to understand avoidance of behavior associated with resulting shock, dog can be taught permanently with quick .22 lead injection.

 

[AussieGirl]

I currently own a Great Pyreenes best dog ever!! When he was about two he did get a hold of a chicken and killed it but all we did was give him a firm scolding and he never did it again ever. Course that didnt mean the eggs were off limits....

 

[dainerra]

Quote:
The problem, again arises from the owner and his timing. Done incorrectly the dog will think the chicken caused him pain. "Ouch! Why you hurt me!" And escalate the violence, killing the livestock. I've never said that an e-coillar wouldn't work. I've said it takes experience and timing to use it correctly.

The fence is an inantimate object. The correction always comes exactly the same way at exactly the same time. With ecollars, you have the human factor, esp when you are at a distance. Correct too soon and the dog doesn't associate it with anything. Correct too late, and the dog will associate it with the wrong thing.

It is similar to fence fighting/barrier frustration as well. The dog can turn its anger/confusion on another animal that is close

Bear, I undersxtand perfectly what is intended. However, if the plan is for the dog to be around and PROTECT the livestock, you can't have him afraid of running up to it now can you? Again, there has to be some foundation of what is expected of the dog. And, no, I didn't get shocked yesterday when I was walking by isn't enough. Being around the flock needs to be associated with good. Protecting the family (flock) should be the only purpose of the dog's life.

It' never a matter of the dog being smart enough to learn, but of the human being smart enough to teach

 

[watchdogps]

Gotta agree with dainerra. I've seen too many dogs screwed up by shock collars. In addition to the risk of incrasing aggresion to chickens (the get-it-before-it-gets-me syndrome), the dog could also associate the shock with the area it is in, an inanimate object nearby, or the goat it was looking at (which the owner couldn't tell bc they were far away)
As I have stated, a dog with whom you have good relationship with will often respect yyour wishes simply because of that. I have brought in other dogs, cats, newborn kittens, bunnies, rats chickens, parakeets, etc and all I do is hold the animal and fuss over it and tell them its my baby. They won't harm it after that. If they get too rambunctious around the creature, I simply have to give a low "easyyyy" and they back right off. I learned that from a couple ladies who have been raising asds for 20+ years, so its not just me who has luck with that tactic.
The OPs dog is a puppy, and too young to be trusted alone with poultry anyway (in 98% of the time anyway), so separate him and work on the relationship, and work on rewarding good behavior when in the presence of chickens.
Btw, in Turkey, they do not just leave the pups out with the flock. The pups are raised in the house for several weeks, and still brought in at night for many weeks after that. The shepherd does have a relationship with the dog. This hands off stuff is something americans invented. The turks don't fuss over the dogs, they don't teach them parlor tricks, but they do keep them in close proximity and handle them and the dogs are expected to be social and steady enough to make trips into town and not be dangerous to the women and children there.

 

[zzGypsy]

Quote:

does that work?

 

[dainerra]

not really. dang opposable thumbs, he keeps taking the collar off!

 

[loanwizard]

Quote:
Shoulda shocked him on 6 when the fella reached for the collar.... He wouldn'ta done it agin!

 

[zzGypsy]

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

Bear, I undersxtand perfectly what is intended. However, if the plan is for the dog to be around and PROTECT the livestock, you can't have him afraid of running up to it now can you?

They aren't protecting the birds if they are chasing (running up to) them.
They are there to deter the predators and basically ignore the chickens

Done properly, the dog will not be afraid of the birds at all.
He just wont TOUCH them, and he won't associate the corrections with anything other than the birds. whereas with the leash he associates it with the owner, and learns not to do it in their presence

To protect them he has to learn to ignore them when he's alone with them

The OPs dog is a puppy, and too young to be trusted alone with poultry anyway (in 98% of the time anyway), so separate him and work on the relationship, and work on rewarding good behavior when in the presence of chickens

You can't teach the dog if it's not with the birds.
That's why the collar works so well, and it's FAST.

This dog is at the perfect age to learn, and needs to learn now rather than later.
The whole point of having LGD's is to keep them with the animals 24/7

If he's only going to be there when you can "hold his hand", you could do the job yourself

"Rewarding good behavior" won't teach him what NOT to do.
It's not like giving a command and rewarding when he does it because in this scenario "good behavior" is doing nothing

LGD's are smart enough to know if they touch a chicken, and get shocked, it wasn't because some goat nearby did it.
They will be 100% focused on the bird they are chasing.
If they were to just walk up slowly and sniff the bird, that wouldn't warrant a correction

I've seen too many dogs screwed up by shock collars

Collars have never screwed up a dog.
Only owners can do that.

This used to be a chicken killer, and it took less than one hour and only 2 shocks to turn him into this
All I had to do was sit on the porch and watch until he chased a bird: