Great Pyrenees livestock guardian

[zazouse]

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He is still a pup and you being away has left him with no direction so he just does what dogs do when they are board they play with stuff, he can still be taught ya just have to get him to understand that birds are not toys.

Also hunger will drive them to kill.
For instance when i got my GP/AS cross he thought every thing was food, that pup tried to eat a kitten when i put it down once,he was growing at such a rate i was having to feed him 3 times a day with snacks in between all my other grow dogs ate once a day.

A water hose works wonders when ya can't move around real good or ya got a dog that will not listen and the GP is known for that PS

I feed all my dogs chicken every day the but they do not kill them they will not even eat them when they happen to find one dead they bring them up on the porch and leave it at the door so i can step on it when i go out, LOL they also bring the rabbits the owls kill , poor owls could starve to death around my place.

 

[ChickenfootDuckbutt]

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It's obvious you have no experience training LGD's or you would know the methods you suggested are a huge waste of time.

You can "believe" anything you like, but I KNOW what actually works

and I would also know that MOST of the things you've posted that I have seen have come across to me as you being a complete and total know-it-all, but I won't go into that, by basically saying I am an idiot when it comes to dogs, thanks

but I know dogs. beating a dog gets no-where, but fear, even wolves in a pack do not FEAR their alpha, they respect them,as part of your dogs pack, you need to RESPECT each other, not create FEAR.

you know what works for YOU, what works for YOU won't work for someone else, for example, I am well aware of the tying dead chickens around the dogs neck, one person I know whom I told to do this, it worked, the other, it didn't, the dog simply ate the chicken from around it;s neck, and continued to kill every chance he got.

you're right, I don't know anything about LGD's I have been around a few Pyr's, they're GREAT dogs, and believe it or not, were able to be commanded by their humans AND do their jobs.

IMO having a dog who "isn't genetically blah blah blah humans" isn't worth having at all, and the fact that people have bred a dog to be in a sense, a wolf, is just stupid. and besides that, if Great pyrs. are supposed work solo, why not just buy one, turn it loose, and let it do what it wants???, after all being "expected", and "taught" to guard livestock is a human manipulation, the dog doesn't WANT to lay around all day and then protect goats/sheep whatever all night when they can't protect themselves.

look I do know this, humans have bred dogs for thousands of years to bond to humans, take comands, ect. and just over the moon obedient, when you start BREEDING a dog who is "suppossed" to go against EVERYTHING in the domestic dogs genetic code, SOMETHING will go wrong.

In OP's case, it's a PUPPY, a 9 month old PUPPY, it's going to act like a PUPPY, now if she wants a completely human fearful dog like everyone seems to think great pyr. are supposed to be, sure go ahead, shock the crap out of the dog, beat it, and then she gets attacked or bitten by her own dog. then, well, so be it. and if said humans fearful dog needs to go to the vet, what are you supposed to do with Great pyr.s? let them croak in a field??


that's all, my post was in no way meant to be offensive but I don't particularly like being called stupid, about a subject I know quite well.

 

[watchdogps]

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Feeding chicken does not make a dog eat live chickens. Throughout history, farmers have fed their dogs whatever livestock they raised. Sheep farmers dogs ate sheep, etc. Farmers didn't go buy dog food, nor special meats for their dogs.

 

[watchdogps]

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Yes, a verbal correction should, ideally, be sufficient. But all too often it is not. We don't know what kind of working relationship -- if any-- the OP has with her dog. I have also seen that LDG are sensitive dogs, espeically the rescues I have seen in the Shelter and rescues I have done behavior work with. You have good working relationships with your dogs, but many of these owners do not.

If this were another context, say obedience training, or agility, and the owner and dog were lacking a connection, would you say to shock them? No, you'd say work on the relationship, right? Same thing here. Take the dog out of the position where he is going to make mistakes, and work on the relationship. It has been hindered by the lack of mobility on the owners part, but that t. That can be overcome in time.

 

[ChickenfootDuckbutt]

It's been my experience that if you're near enough to GIVE a verbal correction, the dog already knows you are there, and will probably NOT perform the behavior you need to correct.

one more thing that comes to my attention, then I'm done on the entire subject.

a truely STUBBORN and willful dog will go beyond you no matter WHERE you are, right there, or not, it WILL go on with it's actions if it wants to, certainly if the dog is loose, now I believe I stated that the dog should be on a lead, did I not?

I used to want a Great pyr. heard they were awesome dogs ect. ect. and certainly the couple I was around WERE just that, but those dogs were accustomed to humans, they listened, even knew how to sit, stay!

but my time on here has put me off of them.


friend of my dad's has cattle, he's raised cattle for over 30 years, he has a German Shepherd AND a siberian husky who both not only Guard the cattle, they also herd, they are outside dogs, and see my dad's friend, once, maybe twice a day, he doesn't really bother playing with them, because they have 200 acres to roam on, and are only around the house long enough to eat their breakfast and then dinner.

but they're still friendly, by contrast he tried out an adult great pyr. mix a few years back, and took it back to the original owners house three days later, he said it growled and even lunged at him several times (we were there once and it DID growl at us), and he will NOT put up with that.

the dog had been raised it's entire life (it was 4 I believe) around sheep and cattle, limited human contact.​

 

[dainerra]

the main thing with shock collars is that you HAVE to know what you are doing. You are going to need an experienced trainer to show you how to time the correction. A zap at the wrong time will actually ESCALATE the problem. why? because the dog will think that the chicken is the one causing the pain and react more aggressively.
In the right hands? yes, they can be a useful tool. In the wrong hands? They can be useless at best, cruel at the worst.

I have a coworker who trained her dog to property boundaries using a shock collar. They put the collar on the dog, got him excited playing with a toy and then threw the toy over the boundary. When he went to get it, they zapped the crap out of him. They did this until the dog would no longer go anywhere NEAR the edge of the yard. Of course, he is also terrified of playing fetch now, but hey, he knows where the yard ends, right?

The point of training isn't just to correct the dog for what it does wrong. You also have to be there to reward the right behavior and, if necessary, show it what it is supposed to do.
You don't teach a dog to sit by just saying "SIT" and then correcting for everything except butt on the floor, do you? No! You have to start out by showing them what the word means.

If you can't get around well enough to teach the dog, then you are going to have to enlist the help of someone. When the dog isn't being actively supervised and trained, then you might have to confine him away from the birds. The most important step to keeping a livestock-friendly dog is to never let them develop bad habits. How is that done? Through supervision and training. Even GP pups that are raised entirely by their dam have this, though it comes from her and not humans.

ETA: there are no "quick fixes" or "surefire cures" in dog training or child raising. Personally, I always wanted a soap opera baby. You know, bring home cute cuddly baby from the hospital then 2 days later it's going away to college in a heart touching moment of family love. Skip all those 3am feedings and poopy diapers, the teen angst and drama.
Instead, we have to do it the old fashioned way, blood sweat and tears.

 

[ChickenfootDuckbutt]

Of course, he is also terrified of playing fetch now, but hey, he knows where the yard ends, right?

sorry, I laughed at that

human: Hey! wanna play fetch!?

dog:.......

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! *flees*

 

[dainerra]

ah, dog training is yet another thing I don't discuss at work. They all think I'm weird because I said that's NOT the way it's supposed to work.

 

[loanwizard]

Let me first predicate this post by saying that I know that I do not know everything. I have a lot to learn, and I am a rookie at animal husbandry. That said, I have 9 dogs, 8 cats, 75 chickens, 2 ducks, 3 goats and 2 hogs, that all seem to get along. Unfortunately, my 2 big dogs have a tendency to run and the neighbors (1/4 mile away either direction) don't care for my big dogs running free when they are bow hunting, especially when the dogs "tree" them. I also work full time during the day so am at the farm only in the mornings to feed and water and at night to put them to bed and on weekends. The beagles are kenneled, and the big dogs have my basement, the chickens have free run of the farm (4 acres) as do the cats. The goats just got a new 300 foot enclosure in some rough area I need cleared, and the hogs have the garden enclosed by 2 strands of electric wire.

Why is it ok to contain hogs with electric wire, but not train dogs with shock collars? I have a girlfriend and her children screamed when I bought the shock collars, telling me I am a cruel human being. I do not consider myself cruel, only pragmatic and subject to the frailties of human kind, meaning I get angry. My shock collars have 6 settings. I have put those collars on myself. On 0, there is only a sound. On 1 it is like someone tapping my neck with a pen. On 2 it is like one of those clicker things sold to sooth muscles. On 3, I get a noticeable jolt. On 4, it is a little stronger. On 6, it still isn't as strong as the fence. That said, I don't have fur.

When I first place a collar on my dogs, I hit them at 2. Most of the time, 3 is enough for corrective action. Have I used 6? Yes I have. If I have a stubborn dog that is doing something I deem serious, then I will do it. Unfortunately, I have hit the wrong dog on 6, and due to my own stupidity it made him jump and squall, and the collar does not work at all for him. Like I said, I am still learning. I am getting better. The way I have learned to use the collar effectively is to collar the dog for a few hours til they forget about it, then take them to the yard for training.

The best point about a collar, is that they do not associate the temporary jolt with their master, but with their action, at least with aggression toward other animals. I have used it to train them effectively and VERY quickly, with my chickens, cats, and with my beagles, for deer.

Is it cruel to purposely place deer scent on the ground then take your beagle to it, only to shock it so that it tells the beagle that trailing deer is a no no? Ever lost a dog because it chased a deer and got lost? It is no crueler than placing a live wire in the stall to train hogs that the wire with a flag on it is a boundary in my opinion.

Perhaps I shouldn't be allowed animals because of my limited time, because I am not at the farm full time? Is a shock collar any more cruel than sticking the dogs nose into something and striking it or tying a dead animal around its neck?

I am open to comments and suggestions. I also used collars to train my dogs to come and to stay. I use it on a low setting. I don't consider myself a cruel person. Pragmatic, yes. Cruel, no.

 

[dainerra]

loanwizard, I don't think there is anything inherently cruel about a shock collar. It is just another tool, useful or cruel depending on the hands that use it. Is it right for every situation? No. Will it work in the OPs situation? It depends.
Does the dog have the foundation to know what IS expected of it?
Is the OP capable of providing that foundation without help since she is injured?
Is the dog the type that will make the correct connection between the zap and the behavior?
Does the OP have the timing and training to know when to apply the correction?

Those are all factors that must be considered. A shock collar isn't a cure-all, just slap it on the dog and hit the button a couple times, TADA! instant behaved dog.
It's true that they won't associate the correction with the owner, BUT if administered at the wrong time they won't associate it with their behavior either. Instead, they will think of it as an attack by the animal that they are already aggressive towards. Then, you have escalated that aggression instead of stopping it.

Too often people see the shock collar as a cure-all. And, in the typical American way, assume that if it will work on 2, then the dog will learn faster if you crank it to 10. Or they just zap the dog without any thought as to the timing. They come home to find that the dog has gotten in the garbage or killed a bird. They grab the remote and start shocking the dog.
Or they take the dog into the chicken run and start zapping him. The dog doesn't know what is going on or what it is supposed to do. What does the dog learn? fear and pain. Will he chase the chickens? Probably not as he will be terrified to even be in the same area. Has he LEARNED anything? No.