great pyrenese

[Beekissed]

A whole lot of people talk like you can just take any dog and train it to guard chickens. The way they talk they act like a stump could be trained to guard chickens. The problem is that nobody actually tells HOW to train a dog to guard chickens or how to get one that kills chickens to stop. Most dogs are not going to guard chickens or anything else except maybe their feed bowl. And the majority that kill chickens will never stop.

I've described to many people how to train dogs to chickens but it's sort of like how everyone wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die~no one wants to fully take the steps necessary to produce a dog that obeys. It's not the dogs with the problem, the problem lies with "most people". Some dogs are easier, so choosing among those types can make the job easier. Some are harder or are already spoiled by "most people", so it's more of a challenge...but it can be done.

I have a sister who has a wall in her kitchen that looks like it belongs to an S&M mistress, of things to control her big dog(Newfoundland/Visla mix) on walks. The dog has dragged her and her husband on numerous occasions to the point of physical injury~ankles sprained, shoulders with rotator cuff injuries, etc. I've explained what to do over and over but they will not listen, so one day in about 5 seconds I showed them how easy it all was with just a leash looped around the neck to make that dog walk calmly beside you~smart dog...smarter than the owners. Since then, just after that tiny demonstration, they no longer have a dog that pulls their arms out of the socket....and this after a tiny little lesson in "who's the boss". This dog had been to a trainer on numerous occasions and had cost them thousands of dollars in training and medical bills.

They also have a Great Dane that is nice but leans on people to the point of knocking them over...they think it's cute. It's not. One time is all it took to correct the behavior when he leaned on me, with one simple move and now the dog knows better. Smart dog, one correction, simple fix. Leaning is claiming and dominating..it's not being affectionate and cute. It's the people..not the dogs.

It takes being forceful in your attitude...not angered because the dog just did something bad...but forceful and with intent to effect change. Dogs are like children..they love boundaries and crave knowing where they are. You've first got to earn their respect and trust and you do that by being consistent in all you want from them, then showing them what you want (not in a frustrated, angry way) and then expecting them to do it. You don't let them get by with jumping on people, not coming when they are called, not sitting or lying down when told, getting on the furniture, getting in your way, barking all the time, etc., then expect they will listen to you when it really counts, around your chickens.

Consistency and purpose, day in and day out.

My advice? Watch Cesar Milan until it hurts your eyes.....it's all in there.

 

[Triple Willow]

I am firmly in the "lot of people camp".  I, and others here that clearly know what they are doing, have repeatedly described how to train dogs with respect to poultry.  The efforts do not seem to have stuck because folks with much less ability with dogs have a lot more to say about dogs, thus swamping out good efforts of others concerning dogs. 
I agree with that. It is kind of like trying to find a straight to the point and correct answer to a lot of things here. There is so much information put out that is incorrect that it is hard to find the right answer. I am thankful that I found a small group of people who really "know" chickens that I could learn from. Otherwise my chickens would probably be up the creek.

The majority of my dogs that have been used to protect poultry killed poultry during early stages but habit was broken. Those that did not have sufficient interest to kill chickens when young where more likely to defend feed bowl later in life.  Therefore I disagree with your last statement.
Maybe I should have said that those dogs don't have an owner that knows how to make them stop, huh? I believe anybody trying to train a dog on poultry might want to consider having some birds that are less important to their purpose, such as extra cockrels.

 

[Triple Willow]

I've described to many people how to train dogs to chickens but it's sort of like how everyone wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die~no one wants to fully take the steps necessary to produce a dog that obeys.  It's not the dogs with the problem, the problem lies with "most people".  Some dogs are easier, so choosing among those types can make the job easier. Some are harder or are already spoiled by "most people", so it's more of a challenge...but it can be done. 

I have a sister who has a wall in her kitchen that looks like it belongs to an S&M mistress, of things to control her big dog(Newfoundland/Visla mix) on walks.  The dog has dragged her and her husband on numerous occasions to the point of physical injury~ankles sprained, shoulders with rotator cuff injuries, etc.  I've explained what to do over and over but they will not listen, so one day in about 5 seconds I showed them how easy it all was with just a leash looped around the neck to make that dog walk calmly beside you~smart dog...smarter than the owners.  Since then, just after that tiny demonstration, they no longer have a dog that pulls their arms out of the socket....and this after a tiny little lesson in "who's the boss".  This dog had been to a trainer on numerous occasions and had cost them thousands of dollars in training and medical bills.
Why aren't you in the dog training business??? No doubt training dogs for poultry would bring in a good income and help a lot pf people, chickens and dogs. I have seen dogs that will nearly choke their selves to death coughing and gagging from a choke collar and still don't walk calmly beside the person. How did you make it work?

They also have a Great Dane that is nice but leans on people to the point of knocking them over...they think it's cute.  It's not.  One time is all it took to correct the behavior when he leaned on me, with one simple move and now the dog knows better.  Smart dog, one correction, simple fix.  Leaning is claiming and dominating..it's not being affectionate and cute.  It's the people..not the dogs.   
How did you correct the leaning?

It takes being forceful in your attitude...not angered because the dog just did something bad...but forceful and with intent to effect change.  Dogs are like children..they love boundaries and crave knowing where they are.  You've first got to earn their respect and trust and you do that by being consistent in all you want from them, then showing them what you want (not in a frustrated, angry way) and then expecting them to do it.  You don't let them get by with jumping on people, not coming when they are called, not sitting or lying down when told, getting on the furniture, getting in your way, barking all the time, etc., then expect they will listen to you when it really counts, around your chickens. 
How do you stop a barker?

Consistency and purpose, day in and day out. 

My advice?  Watch Cesar Milan until it hurts your eyes.....it's all in there. 

 

[cafarmgirl]

The best farm dogs I have had in years and years of keeping dogs have been my mixed breed cow dogs. My current dog is a Queensland Heeler/McNab/Border Collie mix. She is the smartest dog I have ever had the pleasure to own and train and she is PROTECTIVE. She guards the place with great enthusiasm and that includes stray dogs, predators and intruding humans. She is smart enough to know when people should be here and when they shouldn't. She does not allow any stranger to approach the house unless we are there. And of course she is a chicken safe dog. She shares her food and bed with my tiny Sebright bantams.

None of this just happened of course, a lot of time and training gets invested in my farm dogs, but the basic instincts are already there. Breed helps and it can also hinder but one can find examples of good farm dogs in many breeds, temperament and training are the keys. And to be honest, I have a dim view of bringing home just any shelter dog and hoping to make it into a livestock safe farm dog. For a pet, sure, a farm dog, not for me. You don't know the background of such a dog and it's just going to be a lot harder to sort it out and is probably best left to those who are very experienced in dog training. Not every single dog is going to be able to be trustworthy around chickens or naturally guard. I just prefer raising my own from pups and shaping them into what I want and need.

 

[Beekissed]

Quote:

Everything he does pretty much works, though I had trained my dogs before I ever saw an episode of Cesar. After watching Cesar I got some neato helpful tips and have used them since then on other people's dogs with great effect.

With my sis's dog I just pass the leash through it's own handle, positioned the noose at the top of the dog's head behind the ears, with the slip action on the side of the neck and when she started to take off walking before me I gave it a sharp yank and made my "sound", then immediately let up, then I started to walk out. Whenever she would try to go in front I would give it a yank, then release. Three times. That's all it took before she understood that she had to walk beside me, not in front, that she can't pull on the leash or it gets a quick jerk to the side, and that none of these things happen if she just walks beside me. This is the same dog that my sister feels has damaged her larynx from pulling because she makes a raspy noise as she drags them along.

Funny...that larynx works just fine when she barks.

For the dog that was leaning, I just "bit" him in the side while making the sound...a quick, light jab with the fingertips...it wasn't even hard but that dog yelped like I had hit him with electric shock~I think it surprised him more than anything~ and never did it again. I also stopped him from doing it to Mom by just blocking him from getting next to her for a few minutes and he understood I had claimed her and he could no longer dominate her. He was leaning on her so hard it was knocking her down and my sis was thinking it was cute, "He's such a lover!!!! Awwwwww!!!!" My Mom is 110 lbs and 5 ft tall, so the dog comes to her below her chest and weighs the same or more....not loving, not cute, not even.

Mom went to visit last time by herself and Henry didn't lean on her once. It worked and it can keep on working if folks are consistent.

For barking...well..that can only be achieved on one's own dog who already knows who the pack leader is. When I tell them to stop barking in a certain tone of voice, they immediately stop and move away...slink away. When I tell them to do something I expect it to happen. If it does not, I move towards them and change their mind from their current actions. Just give them something else to do...go to their house, sit, lie down, etc. When I tell them to stop barking, I usually add another command....."Jake, stop barking! Go to your house!" Probably the only thing he hears is the last command of "go to your house" but it gets his mind off of barking and gives him something else he has to do. If he resumes barking later all I have to say is, "Uh-oh!" and he knows what that means...it means he has missed a command and must return to the mother ship for a more clear instruction. Then the original command is repeated and followed up on until he "gets" it.

It's all in consistency of training...my dogs soon learn just how long I'll allow them to bark and for what reasons and they pretty much keep to their training with the occasional reminder down through the years.

 

[Triple Willow]

@cafarmgirl... your dog is a combination of some very smart breeds. I agree, I see just getting "a dog" from a shelter in hopes that it will turn out to be a good stock dog as asking for a problem. You don't know if that dog will work out or not then you have the possible heartache of what to do with the dog if it doesn't work out. Then if you do keep it you'll have the problem of having to keep it seperate from your birds so it doesn't kill them. I have enough problems without finding myself a new one. lol

 

[nzpouter]

A whole lot of people talk like you can just take any dog and train it to guard chickens. The way they talk they act like a stump could be trained to guard chickens. The problem is that nobody actually tells HOW to train a dog to guard chickens or how to get one that kills chickens to stop. Most dogs are not going to guard chickens or anything else except maybe their feed bowl. And the majority that kill chickens will never stop.

I must be one of the lucky few, all my dogs don't kill chickens and all the dogs I fostered don't kill them as well.... even those that previously had, only takes about a month or two to get them to walk among the chooks without them chasing the birds.

 

[Triple Willow]

I must be one of the lucky few, all my dogs don't kill chickens and all the dogs I fostered don't kill them as well.... even those that previously had, only takes about a month or two to get them to walk among the chooks without them chasing the birds.

I have a Aussie-Lab mix. He is a very smart dog, perfect manners and all around great dog. He was 8 when I brought the chickens in. He will hang out among the birds, lay around with them, walk around them and usually never bothers them. But he can not be trusted alone with them at all. Especially if they start squawking or flapping their wings he gets excited and will go after them. One day for whatever reason he picked out one certain pullet and went after her. He acted like he did not even have ears, he was on a mission to get that pullet even running right past all the others to get her. Just as I caught him he had caught her and had her in his mouth. He does seem to keep everything ran off except stray dogs. When he is in his pen he is about 3 feet away from one coop/run so he also gets a lot of exposure to them that way. I believe the only thing that will work is a shock collar but I just haven't invested in one yet. Maybe now that the weather is better I will get around to that.

 

[Beekissed]

TW, catch up that bad boy rooster and use him for a training tool! That's what I did with Jake and a nasty ol' Wyandotte hen...tied her feet and left her in the yard to flap and squawk, then gave correction when it caught his interest. Then held her and let him sniff her..about the time he really got dug into sniffing her all over she started flapping and squawking, he got excited and got another correction. I even let her peck him on the nose...

I had him lie down in a submissive manner and held the bird on his neck for a bit. Then I left the bird in the yard with another one all tied up and then I went in the house and watched. Every time they squawked and flapped and he would look at them or even take a step in that direction, he got a verbal correction~"MY CHICKENS!" from the house. The "my chickens" still works after 8 yrs...I can say that in a certain tone and Jake will put his head down and move away if he is standing near a chicken, even if he isn't doing anything wrong.

 

[Triple Willow]

@Bee... now that is a good description of a "HOW." The details are great. That is what us non-dog trainers need! Thanks. I can see that working but I believe he would need a shock collar on. I don't see "MY CHICKEN!" working. I can see him with the chicken in his mouth running across the field with me chasing him with my gimp knee hollering "MY CHICKEN!!! BRING BACK MY BLASTED CHICKEN!!!". hahaha The rest is do-able. Thanks. I'm sure Devil Roo would love to help me out. LOL