Growing quail food

[Farmerman]

Quote:
LEMME GET THIS STRAIT... YOU'RE GOING ON 40+ YR OLD INFORMATION FROM ANCIENT IDEAS PERTAINING TO NEW WORLD GAMEBIRDS FOR YOUR MAD SCIENTIST APPROACH AT MAKING FOOD FOR YOUR OLD WORLD QUAIL? ..... WOW, ALL I CAN SAY IS GOOD LUCK

thanks. Im sure it wont be hard if the predominant nutrition elements are accounted for. those two types of birds require similar diets, so I think it will be very informative yes. these birds were raised by humans for a good amount of time, and they did it with things they grew and collected as well, heck the same holds true for the list you gave. It was all grown, with the nutrients being processed, all those things are indeed in plants and seeds, I just have to find the ideal blend, and account for higher needs for certain things for egg production etc.

To be honest Id consider the more common ways nearer to a mad scientist approach, then feeding them things they evolved to eat. Besides the fact im a homesteader, I dont want to buy their food. It defeats the purpose, and yes my time is valuable as is the quality food I will be growing.....

I wont have any issues at all imo. I will keep them healthy and alive easily enough and over time hone it, to provide the best growth and egg laying potentials.

 

[Farmerman]

http://thatquailplace.com/quail/coturnix/coturn5.htm

I Really dont think Im going to have an issue with this at all, presuming I can get lists of all the nutritional needs of the birds at various life stages. If anyone has such lists PLEASE post them for me., even if i sound nutty to you

Im not sure why people think a manufactured feed would be superior when things you could grow if you had the time can provide all the same nutritional elements often in better forms. Also fresher and as or more soluble. We have better info on nutritional needs now, (although i didnt find complete lists yet) and the folks growing these for 800 plus years didnt have store bought feeds until recently, so I should readily be able to out do them.

Processed feeds arent magic or anything. Heck all they do is what Im intending, have a list of nutritional needs, then piece together things that supply them. Will someone tell me it cant be done? Well then how did the manufacturer do it with inferior food sources no less? Besides I dont want GM foods for my animals. I wont eat the stuff, Im no lab rat, and wouldnt want my birds to be either. So buying feed would be prohibitively expensive anyway. It is also more expensive here being in a small town as I am. The interesting thing for me anyway is all the things Im growing for my fish will be great for these birds as well, although ratios will be different. Only issue Ive run into so far is getting complete nutritional lists for each age, though Ive got the outline so can hone if if need be, and crushing the shells to a powder but i can do that to.

 

[greenriver]

Interesting topic.

I found some writings concerning protein on the net, not sure if true or even helpful with regards to gamebirds. Or chickens for that matter...LOL. There is a list of protein sources.

http://www.lionsgrip.com/protein.html


I have about three acres to plant this year and right now the plan is BOSS , sorghrum and millet.

 

[aprophet]

Quote:

 

[Country Parson]

Farmerman, I would love to hear an update from you in several months as to how things worked out. I'm currently researching this (but for chickens, not quail). The problem I am running into is protein levels. It is rather easy for me to grow enough food material, but growing food with high protein levels (in sufficient volume) is the problem. For example, soy (high protein) is a low-volume producer compared to corn (low protein)--plus with soy you would need to roast it. Regardless, in a backyard garden it would be difficult to produce enough soy product for your birds. Gamebirds seem to require higher protein levels than do chickens. Getting those levels above 20% (or even 25% or higher) is the issue you will have to resolve.

This Spring my plan is to plant oats & millet. In late Spring I'll plant buckwheat. In mid-late Summer I'll plant clover in several spots---this will be used for late fall feedings (I just made several garden hoop houses to put over my clover beds, this will keep them going later into the Fall, thus decreasing the amount of time I'm using stored grains). Other than the clover, my focus has been more on growing feed that can be stored and used during the winter months (in the growing season it is easy to keep protein levels high).

 

[Farmerman]

thanks for the info on parasites in worms aprophet. Its fine though I ordered them, I wanted them for the gardens anyway..... Maybe there is a way around any issues, I will look into it.....

Country parson, Im not really worried about keeping the protein above 20 percent. Common beans, lentils etc do have lower protein then soy, (which i do not want to use) but its still high amounts. all the seeds and nuts and sprouts will have some protein also. So bumping the levels up with the mealworms, I can grow easily shouldnt be an issue. Although it might take me a bit of time to be producing high amounts of them, once I do produce them at sufficient numbers I could always dry excess ones so maintaining a stock should be easy once I get going. (drying them also increase protein percentage per weight drastically)

Im going to try sow bugs AKA pill bugs AKA rolly pollies AKA potatoe bugs also. since quail can eat crickets, this should be a fine meal for them. heck humans eat these things in france. Its not even actually an insect it is a crustacean, but I think it will work well, and I can raise HORDES of them very fast and easy on dried aged sun drenched cowchips kept damp. Much easier then meal worms and those superworms(a different species of insect with a life cycle like mealworms)......

I surely will let you all know how its going, as this project unfolds, I WILL find a way!!!!

 

[Farmerman]

For anyone that was following this thread when it was going, this is actually going to be very very doable. Gauging the dominant needs like protein and such is pretty easy, the other nutrients not so much. because I cannot find values for many of the things I can readily grow. Im not worried about it though, because I do know all those other nutrients are in the things I am growing, and its much closer to what the birds evolved eating. besides corn isnt a great source for these things, and soy is absolutely horrible. those just happen to be subsidized so they are "cheap". Let alone many of the sources of other minerals and nutrients arent even bio available for some brands of feeds. (Im sure not all)

But I just thought Id throw that back out there for anyone contemplating this, without a doubt is possible, and meeting protein levels the most common complaint Ive heard will not be an issue at all. I will repost after Ive got a more complete diet mapped out. I do now actually but like I said I cant find full info on the things Im using and it also depends what I raise these feeds on (not considered with commercial feeds AT ALL) there is zero doubt I will eventually work out a nutritionally superior feed.

yes it will be a lot of work, to grow it all, but well worth it for my needs. Keep in mind also all these feeds you guys buy cost much more in my area, although I can get them.

 

[Fishman43]

Farm-r-man, I wish you luck in your journey in self sustaining quail production. I think it is a noble idea to work towards, and I grow a great percentage of my produce and fruits at home for my family to consume. I also work in the agriculture industry and spend every working day with farmers just trying to survive on what little is left after production.

With that being said, I would like to be/provide what I see as a reality check.

The amount of work, time and money that it will take to produce enough food for you to feed even a modest flock of birds will be prohibative!

For farmers that their one and ONLY job is raising crops or livestock barely have time in the day to get the work done.

You need to understand the economy of scale in agriculture. You are looking to produce crops on what I can only assume is a modest amount of land. The reason we even have affordable food for ourselves let alone our animals is because the entire middle of the country, much of Canada, and some of the coastal States produce corn, wheat, and soy. Even then the farmers could not afford to produce these crops without governement subsidies and support. It actually costs a farmer ~$1-2 per bushel of corn to produce.

The actual quantity/volume of food value (calories) you can get per acre is going to barely be enough to add into a formulated diet as a treat or nutritional additive for your birds. I would suggest going to Google Scholar and looking up some research papers for the crops you are thinking of growing. Under intensively cropped conditions (I.E. everything is accounted for from crop nutrition, N-P-K and micro nutrients, to watering, to planting ang harvest datess/methods) the yields are still lower than you might think (again think economy of scale).

I would aim instead to focus on one, two, or even three items to produce that would be a dietary addative for you to use. Your birds will gain the nutrition and stimulation of a varied diet, and you wont burn out or lose enthusiasm to keep trying new things. I admire your goals, I just think reality will be a bitter pill to swallow come next summer when crops fail or don't produce what you thought and you have spent countless hours, energy and money (even planting tools, seeds, hoses, harvesting equipment, etc, etc cost lots of money) trying to get there. I am not trying to be a downer, just realistic. Set goals and chase your dreams, but setting the goals a little bit at a time will make it far more satisfying when you get there.

Good luck.

 

[Farmerman]

Im a stay at home dad/ plant breeder. who grew up working on a production farm. Im working on breeding plants for dryland agriculture for an area that doesnt currently produce food besides beef at any major level.... I know exactly what it will take.

The REAL reason why farmers barely have money left is relying on outside inputs for everything, I could go on proving this for some time, but even most farmers are not convinced despite it being rather obvious, so I won't.

It only costs money to produce their foods myself because I need the seeds, or things to culture. Ive got them all already. It will be MUCH cheaper in the long run, though a bit more to start for sure. The incubator and eggs were really the major set backs monetarily.

Its a funny notion that farmers can only afford to produce food because of subsidies. This again relates to the fact they rely all on outside inputs, and razor thin margins forced in place by industry and governance, they are nearly serfs on their own land. This is NOT the only way, their margins could be much more ensured and sustainable. It is a totally false paradigm. Where the soil and the farmers tending it, the two most important factors are nearly ignored in the total scheme of things. Even in most organic models for that matter, they also rely on outside inputs, when they do not have to.

As far as burning out, I am a homesteader, its been my goal since I was rather young. I try new things all the time. If I told you half the stuff Im doing you wouldnt even believe me Id guess. Im working on entirely new models (based on older knowledge) for fruit and nut production, and grain and legumes especially, but other things as well. "Mainstream" knowledge structure implies this is harder or less secure, that couldnt be farther from the truth, though in my harsher then normal conditions I do need a bit of reconceptualizing. in most other areas, the knowledge is there for working systems now if you look, and stop buying the hype.

I know you think your being realistic, and I know most will assume your right. Heck most actual farmers, and so called experts would say exactly what you are, trust me Ive talked to them for a long while. But in all actuality if i didnt have to re invent a few things, and the knowledge for my particular area along with the right genetics for my plants didnt need to be bred in a few cases, it would be rather simple. work yes but no more then going to work 40 hours a week to provide the same things for my family.

As far as production per area, I think your rather mis informed. a family of 4 lets say could readily produce all the food they need using all onsite means (atleast after their soil is in line) off of a few acres including caring for animals. Lots of work, surely, but so is any other career or life style. this happens to be mine. Even under mono cultures 100 bushels of corn for instance an acre can be easy. Many get much much higher up to even 400 bushels an acre. A bushel is around 59 pounds. Mono cultures are in no way superior for small scale though, I can greatly enhance that per area with crops filling various niches and time periods, but thats another topic. that includes the cobs of course. Any of the staple crops though will be well into the 1000s of pounds per acre, and yes I know how much work is involved in raising that as I said Ive done this for years, and am a plant breeder, though Ive just got into that recently. Im not using wheat or corn for this though except supplementally from excess we dont eat, actually that will likely go to the meal worms and superworms, just examples I knew the numbers for off the top of my head. Sunflowers, millet, sorghum, amaranth... all of these are well into the 1000s of pounds an acre as well. Some of those I will be using and can be grown VERY passively by the way, if thats what you want to do. and for some things, that is exactly what ive been doing, and will continue to expand on.

 

[Fishman43]

Well with that I wish you luck and look forward to hearing how it works. I guess in my earlier reply I had made some assumptions such as, you had a full time job (outside of homesteading that is) in addition to normal family duties, you are a beginer to larger scale farming/production scale issues, and that you were unfamiliar with varieties of plants and growth requirements. Sorry for the assumptions about you.

That being said, I completely agree with you regarding the reasons for farmers being dependant on outside inputs and their resulting slim margins. It is unfortunate that the government and large companies have created an environment that is so anti-farmer under the guise of supporting them. It is absolutly unbelievable to me that companies like Monsanto can create a monopoly not only supported by the government but upheald by the supreme court, but I digress.

I am sorry for my assumptions and wish you luck. I look forward to reading about your process.