Guinea Fowl with fluffed neck and weight loss - please help!

[R2elk]

R2elk, nice seeing you again! can you overfeed on mealworms? I thought they need higher protein and I am feeding lots of mealworms because the organic feed I get does not have a game bird edition - just layer feed and that has lower protein - do you think they are that sensitive to meal worms? I thought they are supposed to get a lot of insects.

Also, they all eat the same thing and some of them are really healthy.

The incident in the past was with sunflower seeds - because I gave too many over the winter and had a fatty liver and a ruptured artery in a hen in the spring when she tried to start laying and was too fat.

Now they are rather thin.

Too many mealworms and too much millet may still be a problem.

I really wish I knew what to do with the feed! How can it be so complicated that I am killing my birds with feed? I try to be non-GMO, but for Guineas there is no non-GMO game bird feed, is there? I only see chicken layer feed and hence I give them tons of mealworms to bring up the protein.

Yes, casportpony, those are mealworms in the bedding but they are uneaten - dried mealworms. They have them mixed in their feed.

Yes you can over feed mealworms. Mealworms are 50 % protein. The information that I have seen is that chickens can handle up to 70% protein before having kidney problems from excessive protein. That same information shows that turkeys can start having kidney problems from too high of protein at 40% protein levels. I did not find any information on guineas but everything else about guineas is much more consistent with turkeys than it is with chickens.

I personally don't worry about whether or not my feed is non GMO. For the adult guineas, I do not concern myself if a feed is labelled specifically for guineas (turkey/gamebirds) as long as it is a quality feed. I have seen too many instances where it is used as a mean to sell poor quality feeds at exorbitant prices. My guineas get a 20% protein layer pellets, free choice oyster shell and no treats along with free range during the daytime. A quality 16% protein feed is fine for adult guineas.

Just as with turkeys, the keets are the ones that benefit from a high protein starter feed but it is also the additional nutrients such as niacin and methionine at higher levels that are as important as the protein for keets. Once they are adults they do not require as high a percentage of protein.

The problem with having an improper feed ration at a young age is that it does have a cumulative effect on them. Organs that were damaged when they are young may wear out at a younger age than normal even though they had an apparent recovery once the bad habits were stopped.

Good luck.

 

[BennieAnTheJets]

Thank you so much for the swift reply and all the information, R2elk!

Ok, so if they eat only mealworms that would be 50% protein and too much - but they only get a hand-full each every night and they have their low-protein layer feed, so that should be ok, right?

Out of curiosity, how long do your Guineas live? Do you lose a lot of them to predators during the day?

We had a coyote take one at 11: 30 am once, but now we got the Lifestock Guardian Dogs and the predators stay away for the most part, so that bit is good.

Feed is still a mystery to me - or whatever else is hurting my Guineas.

 

[MartinsPoultry]

My guineas get Kalmbalch Layer pellets with crushed egg shells or oyster shell for calcium for egg making. I will give protein count once my house is up, if I go to the kitchen where we store the food my Doberman pup will start yelping even though she was just outside.

I would drastically reduce feeding mealies, if you want to treat them offer some cracker or whole corn, veggies and fruit cuts, or on rare occasion a suet block for wild birds. My guineas go ape for berry suet cake its normally gone in 30 mins with my crew and thats sharing it with 40 chickens and 5 turkeys. Even try a bowl of original oatmeal warm or cool cooked and see if they will eat it.

I personally own reptiles and I refuse to feed meal worms to them even, the hard chitin (outter shell) makes digestion difficult not just on reptile bellies who don't use grit but on those who use grit like birds;

 

[R2elk]

Thank you so much for the swift reply and all the information, R2elk!

Ok, so if they eat only mealworms that would be 50% protein and too much - but they only get a hand-full each every night and they have their low-protein layer feed, so that should be ok, right?

Out of curiosity, how long do your Guineas live? Do you lose a lot of them to predators during the day?

We had a coyote take one at 11: 30 am once, but now we got the Livestock Guardian Dogs and the predators stay away for the most part, so that bit is good.

Feed is still a mystery to me - or whatever else is hurting my Guineas.

I don't know how old my guineas will live since the oldest is 6 this year. At this time I have not seen any signs of disease, worms or old age. The previous flock that I had didn't make it to 2 years old since I did not coop them at night and they were all taken by Great Horned Owls.

This group has a fenced free range area and is put in the coop every night. I have not lost any of them to predation but I actively trap raccoons and skunks. The fox disappeared when the coyotes moved in. The coyotes have not come in since I put up a 6' high 2"x4" welded wire perimeter fence.

The trouble with treats is that all treats combined should be kept below a maximum of 10% of all the feed. That means that mealworms + millet + sunflower seeds + etc. when added together need to be 10% or less of the total amount of food they consume. They really don't need mealworms every night.

I am sorry that providing a better diet for your guineas now is unlikely to to help the older ones live longer but it should improve the expected life span of the younger ones that have not suffered damage to their internal organs.

Another possible problem is that all the treatments that your guineas have had to receive such as the mite treatments, wormings and etc. could also be having a cumulative effect on them. Fortunately for me I have not had to do any treatments of any kind.

Although my guineas and chickens are not really old, I do have a turkey hen that is 10 this year (a little arthritic from rough breedings from a tom) and her 9 year old daughter who are still going strong so I do have hopes for lengthy lives for my guineas.

Good luck.

 

[BennieAnTheJets]

Thank you both so much, MartinsPoultry and R2elk!!

Yes, we feed the Kalmbach layer pellets, too. I mix them half and half with an organic layer feed that is not a pellet because I was rebuked for feeding pellets, that being cited as being the cause of my problems.

It feels like every way I turn, someone says I am doing the wrong thing, so it is a bit frustrating. The worst, of course, is when a Guinea is not doing well.

I thought mealworms are like insects and therefore a healthy part of the diet of Guineas who need more insects than chickens and therefore a good supplement to the chicken feed. What is wrong with meal worms?

Please keep the conversation going - I am sure I will get to the bottom of this with all the info you'all add! Thanks again!

 

[R2elk]

Thank you both so much, MartinsPoultry and R2elk!!

Yes, we feed the Kalmbach layer pellets, too. I mix them half and half with an organic layer feed that is not a pellet because I was rebuked for feeding pellets, that being cited as being the cause of my problems.

It feels like every way I turn, someone says I am doing the wrong thing, so it is a bit frustrating. The worst, of course, is when Guinea is not doing well.

I thought mealworms are like insects and therefore a healthy part of the diet of Guineas who need more insects than chickens and therefore a good supplement to the chicken feed. What is wrong with meal worms?

Please keep the conversation going - I am sure I will get to the bottom of this with all the info you'all add! Thanks again!

Whoever rebuked you for feeding pellets is in the wrong. As long as the quality of the feed is the same, there is no difference whether you feed pellets or crumbles to adult poultry. The key is adults. There can be arguments against feeding pellets to immature poultry that aren't really large enough to easily handle pellets but adult full size poultry have no problem with pellets. I feed pellets because my poultry wastes less of their feed when it is in the form of pellets.

Mealworms are insects but not all insects are equal in the content of the nutrients they provide. A free ranging guinea does not survive on insects alone. They have a diverse diet including grasses, seeds, insects, small animals, etc. Mine have access to a very nice bed of mushrooms that they work over quite a bit as well as all the Russian Olives they want to eat. My trees usually provide a bumper crop of Russian Olives that at this time completely cover the ground starting in the fall throughout the winter.

Mealworms are a good thing but too much of a good thing can be bad. Think of mealworms and millet as guinea candy. A little candy is okay but a lot of candy is never a good thing.