Guinea Fowl with fluffed neck and weight loss - please help!

[BennieAnTheJets]

Hi all - this is a very special bird with a tightly bonded mate - would break my heart to lose him - feeling helpless - if you have any advice, much appreciated!

How do I find out what may be wrong with him? What would you do if he was one of yours?

1) What type of bird , age and weight (does the chicken seem or feel lighter or thinner than the others.)

>> Guinea Fowl, 5 years old, too thin

2) What is the behavior, exactly.

>> neck feathers fluffed even when others don't fluff theirs (not just due to cold weather), running with head low, losing weight

3) How long has the bird been exhibiting symptoms?

>> I just really noticed it today, but have suspected it for about 1-2 weeks

4) Are other birds exhibiting the same symptoms?

>> no, the other birds are fine, some may be too thin

5) Is there any bleeding, injury, broken bones or other sign of trauma.

>> no

6) What happened, if anything that you know of, that may have caused the situation.

>> I don't know - we worm pretty aggressively and regularly with fenbendazole and ivermectin, and never get any worm eggs on fecal float exams, so I don't think it is worms

7) What has the bird been eating and drinking, if at all.

>> organic layer mix, organic pellets, dried meal worms, millet, water

8) How does the poop look? Normal? Bloody? Runny? etc.

>> not sure - will bring him in tonight and maybe see by morning

9) What has been the treatment you have administered so far?

>> none

10 ) What is your intent as far as treatment? For example, do you want to treat completely yourself, or do you need help in stabilizing the bird til you can get to a vet?

>> any ideas welcome to get to the bottom of this - will take him to a vet Monday or Tuesday if I can get an appointment - but sometimes the forums tell me things the vet may miss (birds can have so many things) and I can bring it up there, if it makes sense

11) If you have a picture of the wound or condition, please post it. It may help.

>> no wound, no nasal discharge, nothing obvious

12) Describe the housing/bedding in use

>> coop with wood chips and hay at night, free range during the day

 

[R2elk]

Hi all - this is a very special bird with a tightly bonded mate - would break my heart to lose him - feeling helpless - if you have any advice, much appreciated!

How do I find out what may be wrong with him? What would you do if he was one of yours?

1) What type of bird , age and weight (does the chicken seem or feel lighter or thinner than the others.)

>> Guinea Fowl, 5 years old, too thin

2) What is the behavior, exactly.

>> neck feathers fluffed even when others don't fluff theirs (not just due to cold weather), running with head low, losing weight

3) How long has the bird been exhibiting symptoms?

>> I just really noticed it today, but have suspected it for about 1-2 weeks

4) Are other birds exhibiting the same symptoms?

>> no, the other birds are fine, some may be too thin

5) Is there any bleeding, injury, broken bones or other sign of trauma.

>> no

6) What happened, if anything that you know of, that may have caused the situation.

>> I don't know - we worm pretty aggressively and regularly with fenbendazole and ivermectin, and never get any worm eggs on fecal float exams, so I don't think it is worms

7) What has the bird been eating and drinking, if at all.

>> organic layer mix, organic pellets, dried meal worms, millet, water

8) How does the poop look? Normal? Bloody? Runny? etc.

>> not sure - will bring him in tonight and maybe see by morning

9) What has been the treatment you have administered so far?

>> none

10 ) What is your intent as far as treatment? For example, do you want to treat completely yourself, or do you need help in stabilizing the bird til you can get to a vet?

>> any ideas welcome to get to the bottom of this - will take him to a vet Monday or Tuesday if I can get an appointment - but sometimes the forums tell me things the vet may miss (birds can have so many things) and I can bring it up there, if it makes sense

11) If you have a picture of the wound or condition, please post it. It may help.

>> no wound, no nasal discharge, nothing obvious

12) Describe the housing/bedding in use

>> coop with wood chips and hay at night, free range during the day

Hi Benny, Having followed you for a long time on the Guinea Fowl forum, I am guessing that he is suffering from long term kidney damage due to your days of providing excessive amounts of treats (mealworms). I know that you do now practice good nutrition for your 2 legged friends but the damage that was done back then can be causing the shortened life expectancy of your older guineas. I suspect that the only thing you can do is to try your best to keep him comfortable and I doubt there is any cure. Of course this is just my opinion and I would be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[casportpony]

Sorry you Guinea is sick. If he were mine I would bring him inside and tube feed some Pedialyte. Do you know how to tube feed? Pictures of poop will be helpful.

 

[MartinsPoultry]

Maybe try a different food for him with higher protein, offer extra fluids with ACV, Honey Vitamins and Pedialyte mixed in.

I would bring him in keep careful watch if he isn't liking being in the house place him in a crate in the barn or shed so his mate can see and hear him.

 

[BennieAnTheJets]

Thank you so much Wyorp Rock, casportpony, and MartinsPoultry!!!

I have him inside at night now since it is cold in the coop at night and he goes out from about noon to 8 pm to free range and them come home to roost with the others. Was hoping he would eat more and get more stimulation to get better when free ranging... not sure. Keeping an eye on him and he is plenty feisty still but runs like a very weak bird (thin and weak).

Would like to keep him with the flock as much as possible since we have a large flock and everyone needs to keep their place or lose it. Hoping he makes it and it would be less stressful to leave him out all day and night again later if he has kept his spot during the recovery.

I am scared since we had one waste away for several months and nothing turned him around: vet visit, antibiotics, baby bird formula force fed three times a day for almost two months, Pedialyte, etc. Have never tried Honey or ACV - will offer that - did used to get special vitamins for them.

Have never tube fed but have some luck feeding them with a syringe (no needle) into the side of the beak - have done that plenty of times.

Here is a pic of the poo, as requested - the two on the right are the dark, soft, smeary, stinky stuff they poo every so often, the one on the left looks more normal but seems to be missing the white cap. I found some good looking ones this morning but wasn't 100% sure they were his - will keep on spying on his droppings. The little white thing on the left poo is a millet grain. He has plenty of millet and meal worms and regular food and water, and grass/etc when free ranging - saw him eat some millet.

 

[MartinsPoultry]

His poop looks a little tary, so something is going on that he is having trouble fighting.

 

[R2elk]

R2elk, nice seeing you again! can you overfeed on mealworms? I thought they need higher protein and I am feeding lots of mealworms because the organic feed I get does not have a game bird edition - just layer feed and that has lower protein - do you think they are that sensitive to meal worms? I thought they are supposed to get a lot of insects.

Also, they all eat the same thing and some of them are really healthy.

The incident in the past was with sunflower seeds - because I gave too many over the winter and had a fatty liver and a ruptured artery in a hen in the spring when she tried to start laying and was too fat.

Now they are rather thin.

Too many mealworms and too much millet may still be a problem.

I really wish I knew what to do with the feed! How can it be so complicated that I am killing my birds with feed? I try to be non-GMO, but for Guineas there is no non-GMO game bird feed, is there? I only see chicken layer feed and hence I give them tons of mealworms to bring up the protein.

Yes, casportpony, those are mealworms in the bedding but they are uneaten - dried mealworms. They have them mixed in their feed.

Yes you can over feed mealworms. Mealworms are 50 % protein. The information that I have seen is that chickens can handle up to 70% protein before having kidney problems from excessive protein. That same information shows that turkeys can start having kidney problems from too high of protein at 40% protein levels. I did not find any information on guineas but everything else about guineas is much more consistent with turkeys than it is with chickens.

I personally don't worry about whether or not my feed is non GMO. For the adult guineas, I do not concern myself if a feed is labelled specifically for guineas (turkey/gamebirds) as long as it is a quality feed. I have seen too many instances where it is used as a mean to sell poor quality feeds at exorbitant prices. My guineas get a 20% protein layer pellets, free choice oyster shell and no treats along with free range during the daytime. A quality 16% protein feed is fine for adult guineas.

Just as with turkeys, the keets are the ones that benefit from a high protein starter feed but it is also the additional nutrients such as niacin and methionine at higher levels that are as important as the protein for keets. Once they are adults they do not require as high a percentage of protein.

The problem with having an improper feed ration at a young age is that it does have a cumulative effect on them. Organs that were damaged when they are young may wear out at a younger age than normal even though they had an apparent recovery once the bad habits were stopped.

Good luck.

 

[R2elk]

Thank you so much for the swift reply and all the information, R2elk!

Ok, so if they eat only mealworms that would be 50% protein and too much - but they only get a hand-full each every night and they have their low-protein layer feed, so that should be ok, right?

Out of curiosity, how long do your Guineas live? Do you lose a lot of them to predators during the day?

We had a coyote take one at 11: 30 am once, but now we got the Livestock Guardian Dogs and the predators stay away for the most part, so that bit is good.

Feed is still a mystery to me - or whatever else is hurting my Guineas.

I don't know how old my guineas will live since the oldest is 6 this year. At this time I have not seen any signs of disease, worms or old age. The previous flock that I had didn't make it to 2 years old since I did not coop them at night and they were all taken by Great Horned Owls.

This group has a fenced free range area and is put in the coop every night. I have not lost any of them to predation but I actively trap raccoons and skunks. The fox disappeared when the coyotes moved in. The coyotes have not come in since I put up a 6' high 2"x4" welded wire perimeter fence.

The trouble with treats is that all treats combined should be kept below a maximum of 10% of all the feed. That means that mealworms + millet + sunflower seeds + etc. when added together need to be 10% or less of the total amount of food they consume. They really don't need mealworms every night.

I am sorry that providing a better diet for your guineas now is unlikely to to help the older ones live longer but it should improve the expected life span of the younger ones that have not suffered damage to their internal organs.

Another possible problem is that all the treatments that your guineas have had to receive such as the mite treatments, wormings and etc. could also be having a cumulative effect on them. Fortunately for me I have not had to do any treatments of any kind.

Although my guineas and chickens are not really old, I do have a turkey hen that is 10 this year (a little arthritic from rough breedings from a tom) and her 9 year old daughter who are still going strong so I do have hopes for lengthy lives for my guineas.

Good luck.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I'm sorry your Guinea is not doing well.

I don't know much about them, so let's tag a few people to see if they have any ideas.
@casportpony @MartinsPoultry ( and whoever else knows something about them)

 

[casportpony]

Thank you so much Wyorp Rock, casportpony, and MartinsPoultry!!!

I have him inside at night now since it is cold in the coop at night and he goes out from about noon to 8 pm to free range and them come home to roost with the others. Was hoping he would eat more and get more stimulation to get better when free ranging... not sure. Keeping an eye on him and he is plenty feisty still but runs like a very weak bird (thin and weak).

Would like to keep him with the flock as much as possible since we have a large flock and everyone needs to keep their place or lose it. Hoping he makes it and it would be less stressful to leave him out all day and night again later if he has kept his spot during the recovery.

I am scared since we had one waste away for several months and nothing turned him around: vet visit, antibiotics, baby bird formula force fed three times a day for almost two months, Pedialyte, etc. Have never tried Honey or ACV - will offer that - did used to get special vitamins for them.

Have never tube fed but have some luck feeding them with a syringe (no needle) into the side of the beak - have done that plenty of times.

Here is a pic of the poo, as requested - the two on the right are the dark, soft, smeary, stinky stuff they poo every so often, the one on the left looks more normal but seems to be missing the white cap. I found some good looking ones this morning but wasn't 100% sure they were his - will keep on spying on his droppings. The little white thing on the left poo is a millet grain. He has plenty of millet and meal worms and regular food and water, and grass/etc when free ranging - saw him eat some millet.

Are those mealworms in his poop fresh or partially digested?