Guineas and hawks

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

I feel like a hand-wringer to keep posting about my guineas, but I really appreciate everyone’s help! So, I removed six guineas, leaving a flock of 9 with probably only one, lavender male. After the traumatic capture of the six rehomed guineas, I left the nine remaining penned up (12x14 ft run and 8x6 ft coop) so that they would use the coop a few times to offset any perception that it is dangerous, and so they could rework their new flock dynamics in safety. Planned to start free range again tomorrow AM, after two nights penned. However, came home to a Cooper’s hawk stationed over the coop yesterday. Now I’m afraid to let the guineas out tomorrow. However, keeping them penned with chickens after another predator attack may have contributed to their behavior problems with chickens and ducks. Chickens and ducks are separated from guineas now by wire. So far, guineas have stuck very close to coop when free ranging; coop is at border of forest in one side, prairie on the other, with entry on prairie side. So... how long should I keep guineas penned? Release tomorrow and hope they will be hawk savvy? Or pen for a few weeks and hope the hawk leaves? Note that I’m in Oklahoma, where Coopers and red-tailed hawks are abundant in winter...

 

[Sydney65]

I don't do anything about hawks, owls or eagles other than to take their pictures. I don't often have hawks in here but when they do show up they are usually after the collared doves that have moved in. They are welcome to all the collared doves they can catch.

My guineas will do the what is it dance as they circle a pumpkin. They will not eat pumpkin at all. The chickens and turkeys won't wait for the pumpkins to get ripe before they start eating them.

All of the poultry will clean up the Russian Olives I knock onto the ground.

The Happy Dance? Lol. Rosie thought it was predator and wldnt let the other 2 near it, so at lockdown I put a portion in the run and the young ones snuck back out to eat.

 

[R2elk]

WOW!!! Those are just gorgeous! The massive one in the wheelbarrow is just UNreal!!!

do you have the wilting virus spread by squash beetles there? How do you use the mantises?

No wilting disease here. I buy mantis egg cases in the spring and place them in the garden and various trees around the place.

The big pumpkiins are Big Moose. They are a short season pumpkin that is said to be able to get to 120 lbs. My biggest one this year was 123 3/4 lbs.

 

[Sydney65]

I know I’m in the minority, but I don’t give pumpkins to our poultry. I actually give the guineas almost no produce, as I didn’t want to teach them to raid our gardens. The guineas will steal blueberries off the bushes, but eat almost no other of our fruits and veggies. Lest you think they are deprived, we planted a small field of winter wheat and turnips that they love, plus plenty of clover (see pic). They are enthusiastic grazers.

As for the chickens, I keep thinking of our nearby pumpkin farm that I took our kids to years ago. I told the farm owner that I wanted to buy her pumpkins to make a pie, and she stated that they use so many pesticides on their ornamental pumpkins that she wasn’t comfortable selling it to me to eat. That mirrored my own experience trying to grow pumpkins, because we can make them look great for awhile, but squash pests always show up eventually and give them a disease that rapidly kills the vines. Pumpkins are slow growing, so it would take a lot of pesticide (or row covers, I want to try that!) to keep it going long enough to get big pumpkins in our area. Anyway, while we give lots of leftover produce to our chickens, I don’t give them pumpkins due to presumed heavy pesticide use of the typical pumpkins left over from Halloween.

I can see that being an issue in large production. Pumpkin growing for us has always been a curiosity. We don't can or eat them, but kids are always fascinated by a pumpkin patch. We don't use pesticides in the garden; the only thing the pumpkin patch got was whatever came out of the coop every day plus whatever they left behind while lounging under the canopy of leaves.
(the 2 reg size pumpkins were store bought)

 

[Sydney65]

Wow! I’m envious of everyone else’s pumpkin growing abilities!

We've had pumpkin patches since our kids were little. Some years were better than others, but the giants we have this yr. we fully accredit the guineas with. Last night's temps surely killed the vine, but there were still 2 growing in the "pumpkin tree " (aka that apple tree I mentioned elsewhere). Yes, really. The vines grew in the tree so there were pumpkins hanging from it. Lol

 

[R2elk]

We've had pumpkin patches since our kids were little. Some years were better than others, but the giants we have this yr. we fully accredit the guineas with. Last night's temps surely killed the vine, but there were still 2 growing in the "pumpkin tree " (aka that apple tree I mentioned elsewhere). Yes, really. The vines grew in the tree so there were pumpkins hanging from it. Lol

Mine grew down over my retaining wall into the turkey/chicken run. They were eating the pumpkins before they were ripe.

 

[Sydney65]

Mine grew down over my retaining wall into the turkey/chicken run. They were eating the pumpkins before they were ripe.

I kept expecting them to try that, and they liked laying near them, but it never happened.

 

[Sydney65]

I think Mud Pie was lost to a hawk, 2 months ago. That was my most recent loss. I guess it still feels quite recent to me… Yes, I suspect the same hawk is still around, though due to migrations, it could be a different hawk. I’m not doing a lot to prevent more. I stand outside with the guineas when I hear them making red alert noises, like their “machine gun“ call. Goons are still on alert, but not like they were after Muddy’s loss and Kingpins attack!

Babies - yes! They are still here. I’ll take some pics at the end of this week - 8!weeks! It’s getting colder and colder, but they seem to be surviving the cold so far.

Was watching a vet show this a.m., and they said they were treating a goshawk. But the bird in question had partial webbing (not full) between toes,which made me curious. Still have not found such a thing, but figured it might be good to compile what I did find to identify some of our birds' nemesis'. (Mb Oz has webbed hawks?)
Is it a hawk or a Falcon?
Hawks have sleek,pointed heads,smooth beaks which curve slightly, brown cheeks,stocky, medium-sized bodies,long tails & broad wings w/fingers-like tapering on the ends.The mature hawk has brown stripes on its belly with a white band at the base. They kill w/their talons.
Falcons are smaller & slender, short rounded heads w/ white cheeks and angular beaks w/a bend or notch used for neck breaking. They have tapered wings w/pointed tips.Mature Falcon have striped bellies all the way down, but the juvenile will always have the white cheeks.

Which kind of Hawk?
There are 16 species of hawk in the US. I'm just hitting on the more common ones, as some avoid civilization or have limited range in US.

Red-tailed Hawk​

Since the red tailed hawk can be difference colors, it's identifying attribute is the red tail. It's usually seen more in the winter but can be found pretty much anywhere in North America but breed in Canada summers. They don't hang out at bird feeders but will go for your poultry. They are said to mate for life & reuse nests every year when possible.
I don't tend to get close enough to see tail color, but if we hear this,

That's a red-tailed hawk. (Numi & the pup are NOT impressed)
Length: 18-26 inches / 45-65 cm
Weight: 1.5-3.5 lbs. / 700-1600 gm
Wingspan: 43-55 inches/ 110-140 cm
Scientific Name: Buteo jamaicensis

Sharp-shinned Hawk or Cooper's Hawk?
Smallest hawk in US, fast moving,upper chest has orange bars that fades downward, wings & back are blue-gray. Their wings are short and rounded, tail long. An ambush predator, they are often found near bird feeders. They are often confused w/the Cooper' s hawk, though 6" shorter & 1/2 the weight.

Coop has a cap and flaps wings slowly
Sharpie has a cape and flaps quickly.
The link I share at bottom has their sound imbedded sharpie is high pitched kikikikik,cooper is cakcakcak. I bet when you hear you'll recognize both.

Northern Goshawk
A Cooper's hawk is often mistook for a goshawk. They're similar, & goshawks don't like being around us. But goshawks have dark heads and red eyes, bluish white to gray barred under-bellies and blue-gray to brown upper bodies. They are larger and fiercer than the above birds & will attack.

Red-shouldered Hawk​

Barred red chest, white underwings,banded tail, red shoulders visible when perched. Mainly in North-South Central, Mid-South Atlantic regions. The hunting style makes them unique as they drop from directly above.

(now all 3 dogs on alert)

More imbedded sounds and photos, as well as more species that have limited range in the states, can be seen at this great site: https://birdwatchinghq.com/hawks-in-the-united-states/

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

We've had 2 bald eagles scoping out the perimeter at diff times now, and the Cooper's hawk who's tree we took away. Otherwise, they keep an eye on the sky at all xs, Haven't seen any swoopdowns, but will never know what wiped me out, either. Once the crows settled in everyone else vamoosed.

Our local crows raid the guineas nests, so the guineas hate them. But I like the crows for how well they chase off the hawks. We recently found a pile of crow feathers that had been plucked, like a raptor does. Something grabbed that crow and ate it - I suspect our Cooper’s hawk that I’m still seeing around occasionally. So I guess the animosity is mutual between the crows and hawks!

Your comments about bald eagles reminded me of this thread about eagles going after chickens free ranging in an orchard - very interesting if you haven’t read it!

https://www.backyardchickens.com/posts/21485985

 

[Biddybot]

Okay, redirected myself from the chicken side of things... As I posted there, my guineas never had a problem seeing off the raptors we have in Nova Scotia and that one quasi-attack I witnessed, with the hawk dropping down out of a spruce tree to try and spook a guinea family into scattering, didn't end too well for the hawk, since the male guinea came forward and was willing to fight. I just checked some photos and believe it was a goshawk that was involved that time. I remember being impressed that the male guinea was willing to take on a hawk that stood just as tall as himself...it was a touch bigger than a crow and seemed quite substantial. Anyway, ended in a stalemate at best and I can't recall a single other incident of any raptor genuinely threatening my own guineas, either adults or young, let alone succeeding in killing one. I also don't know anybody who's lost a guinea to a raptor, at least not hereabouts. Maybe they look too odd or move too differently compared to the fowl the local raptors are much more used to, the ruffed grouse and ring-necked pheasants that are actually fairly common where I live? Or maybe they're just really put off by the way guineas scream at them. I never saw a sitting raptor that lasted long once they'd been spotted by the guineas and vocally harassed and cursed at by the entire milling flock. Kind of like owls being mobbed by crows. They usually move on too, to try and find thicker, better concealing evergreens to sit in.

I do remember seeing a home video once of an eagle--bald, I think?--standing over the body of an adult guinea that it had reportedly just killed in the yard of the person videoing the action. And honestly, that's the ONLY case of an adult guinea being taken by a raptor that I know of...presuming the video was for real and not just a case of an already dead bird being tossed out and a passing eagle dropping down to enjoy some tasty carrion!

The teepee looks good, like a game bird shelter. Try scattering some white millet seed near and in the shelter to overcome your guineas' caution. Mine used to be absolutely nutz about white millet. It was like their version of crack or something, the way white bread is like crack to the chickens.