Guniea Keets Keep Dying on Me....Help!

[abarglof]

We got 30 guinea keets on Wednesday. We put them in the brooder with a heat lamp on a thermostat to stay between 90 and 95 Degrees. I bought Sav-A-Chick Electrolyte at Tractor Supply, but the store forgot to put it in the bag and I didn't realize until I got home. So, I made them water with sugar (4 cups water and 3 Tbsp sugar). Tractor Supply was out of Turkery/Wild Fowl Starter so I had to go with Chick Starter that is medicated. It is now Saturday and I am about to lose my 5th keet. On Day 2 we lost two keets - one that was injured in the box upon arrival (so we were not shocked) and another that I think got injured and died in some sort of accident in the brooder because we heard a strange noise and when we checked it was lying under the ramp to its food and water and it was contorted and gasping for air. BUT most concerning, yesterday we started to lose 2 keets that seemed perfectly healthy on Wednesday and Thursday. I noticed them moving slower and so I picked them up and fed them electrolyte (homemade with molasses, baking soda, salt and water)through a syringe. I also gave the keets scrambled egg to try and boost protein intake. But the two keets died - one last night and I found the other first thing early this morning. Fortunately, we were able to get Turkey Starter at Tractor Supply yesterday afternoon too, so the keets are now on a higher protein feed. But now I have another keet looking VERY lethargic and not moving around...it just wants to sleep. I just gave it electrolyte through a syringe and I am hoping for the best.
Is this typical? Possibly 5 dead keets out of 30. Three of these keets appearing very healthy the first two days...but all of a sudden becoming lethargic and dying...? Am I doing something wrong? I really don't want anymore to die... Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[R2elk]

We got 30 guinea keets on Wednesday. We put them in the brooder with a heat lamp on a thermostat to stay between 90 and 95 Degrees. I bought Sav-A-Chick Electrolyte at Tractor Supply, but the store forgot to put it in the bag and I didn't realize until I got home. So, I made them water with sugar (4 cups water and 3 Tbsp sugar). Tractor Supply was out of Turkery/Wild Fowl Starter so I had to go with Chick Starter that is medicated. It is now Saturday and I am about to lose my 5th keet. On Day 2 we lost two keets - one that was injured in the box upon arrival (so we were not shocked) and another that I think got injured and died in some sort of accident in the brooder because we heard a strange noise and when we checked it was lying under the ramp to its food and water and it was contorted and gasping for air. BUT most concerning, yesterday we started to lose 2 keets that seemed perfectly healthy on Wednesday and Thursday. I noticed them moving slower and so I picked them up and fed them electrolyte (homemade with molasses, baking soda, salt and water)through a syringe. I also gave the keets scrambled egg to try and boost protein intake. But the two keets died - one last night and I found the other first thing early this morning. Fortunately, we were able to get Turkey Starter at Tractor Supply yesterday afternoon too, so the keets are now on a higher protein feed. But now I have another keet looking VERY lethargic and not moving around...it just wants to sleep. I just gave it electrolyte through a syringe and I am hoping for the best.
Is this typical? Possibly 5 dead keets out of 30. Three of these keets appearing very healthy the first two days...but all of a sudden becoming lethargic and dying...? Am I doing something wrong? I really don't want anymore to die... Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.

Without actually seeing your set up, my concern is that your keets are not getting water. I don't understand this: "it was lying under the ramp to its food and water". Why would there be a ramp to the water and food? Keets need their water readily accessible at their level.

 

[abarglof]

Without actually seeing your set up, my concern is that your keets are not getting water. I don't understand this: "it was lying under the ramp to its food and water". Why would there be a ramp to the water and food? Keets need their water readily accessible at their level.

Thank you for responding. When researching caring for keets and chicks we saw several recommendations to help keep their water and food clean, and to help keep their bedding dry, to use an empty plastic bin and put a wire top over it and place the food and water on the wire top...that way mess and water fall into the bin instead of getting all over the bedding. I actually think that is working very well. All of the keets easily go up and down the ramp and blow through their food and water. Half of them can already jump up on it and forego the ramp.
I stumbled upon a forum just an hour ago where a woman talked about having the same issue as me - the keets were great for the first few days and then they started dropping like flies. She autopsied them and found pine shavings in their guts. We are using pine shavings - not saw dust - and I believe they are eating it. I am frustrated because in all of the articles about raising keets that I have read, and the conversations I had with the hatchery about raising do's and dont's, no one ever said not to use pine shavings (or at least say their is a risk with using them). So, we have moved them out of that bin and put them in one lined with paper towels for the night. I am going to try to find straw tomorrow...unless someone on here dissuades that. We also gave them a little grit because the same thread that told me the pine shaving issue said grit will help break up any that is already in their guts...even though my research says not to give them grit too early....
I am hoping that this was the issue and that we caught it quick enough. We did lose the 5th chick a few hours ago .
As for the one that I think had an accident - we have a bully keet that has been grabbing other keets and pulling them by the feet and pecking a lot. I think he caused this keet an injury because it was never lethargic or slow. It went from being active and running around to flopped out and gasping...
It is so hard being an animal mommy. My husband was trying to ease my pain when I found it could be the pine shavings. I was crying over the ones I lost because of my ignorance, but he said he applauds me for not giving up researching the problem and possibly finding the solution. I am praying hard tonight that this is the solution. I will keep the group posted. Thanks again for responding.

 

[R2elk]

Thank you for responding. When researching caring for keets and chicks we saw several recommendations to help keep their water and food clean, and to help keep their bedding dry, to use an empty plastic bin and put a wire top over it and place the food and water on the wire top...that way mess and water fall into the bin instead of getting all over the bedding. I actually think that is working very well. All of the keets easily go up and down the ramp and blow through their food and water. Half of them can already jump up on it and forego the ramp.
I stumbled upon a forum just an hour ago where a woman talked about having the same issue as me - the keets were great for the first few days and then they started dropping like flies. She autopsied them and found pine shavings in their guts. We are using pine shavings - not saw dust - and I believe they are eating it. I am frustrated because in all of the articles about raising keets that I have read, and the conversations I had with the hatchery about raising do's and dont's, no one ever said not to use pine shavings (or at least say their is a risk with using them). So, we have moved them out of that bin and put them in one lined with paper towels for the night. I am going to try to find straw tomorrow...unless someone on here dissuades that. We also gave them a little grit because the same thread that told me the pine shaving issue said grit will help break up any that is already in their guts...even though my research says not to give them grit too early....
I am hoping that this was the issue and that we caught it quick enough. We did lose the 5th chick a few hours ago .
As for the one that I think had an accident - we have a bully keet that has been grabbing other keets and pulling them by the feet and pecking a lot. I think he caused this keet an injury because it was never lethargic or slow. It went from being active and running around to flopped out and gasping...
It is so hard being an animal mommy. My husband was trying to ease my pain when I found it could be the pine shavings. I was crying over the ones I lost because of my ignorance, but he said he applauds me for not giving up researching the problem and possibly finding the solution. I am praying hard tonight that this is the solution. I will keep the group posted. Thanks again for responding.

It has been stated many times in this forum to not use wood chips for bedding because the keets will eat them. Without any appropriate sized grit, they cannot digest them and they will become impacted and die. @PeepsCA was the first that I noticed telling people to not use wood chips.and that was at least 7 years ago.

I am sorry that you had to learn the hard way.

 

[Kiki]

Will you please double check the temperature under your heat source.
95 is too hot.

 

[abarglof]

It has been stated many times in this forum to not use wood chips for bedding because the keets will eat them. Without any appropriate sized grit, they cannot digest them and they will become impacted and die. @PeepsCA was the first that I noticed telling people to not use wood chips.and that was at least 7 years ago.

I am sorry that you had to learn the hard way.

I am sorry too. And just to be clear, my comment about none of my research or phone conversations with the hatchery warning about the risks of pine shavings had nothing to do with this forum.. I just became aware of and joined this forum the other day after getting my keets. My frustration was with the hundreds of keet articles I read from other sources, the multiple phone conversations with the hatchery in preparation for my keets, and the local feed supply that never said anything about pine shaving risks and actually pointed me to pine shavings for keets. All I was told to avoid was newspape and saw dust. This forum has been a great in the few days I have known about it. I am sorry if my prior comment appeared I meant this forum misinformed me.
It is overwhelming because there are so many sources saying different things...medicated food is toxic to keets/medicated food is fine, no grit in the first few weeks/grit from the beginning, etc. - I thought I was good to go with the research and leg work I did prior to their arrival. Then they start dying and your heart is torn apart and you feel like an utter failure to these helpless little lives.
Last night we did a complete bedding change and also checked everyone for pasty butt. We put down some grit and went to bed. So far this morning everyone seems perky and active so hopefully pine shavings were the problem. Thank you for your response.

 

[abarglof]

Will you please double check the temperature under your heat source.
95 is too hot.

Hello. Thank you for your response. My keets will not be a week old until tomorrow afternoon. All of the research I did states to keep them at 95 degrees the first week and to drop it by 5 degrees each week after that (a couple articles saying 5 degree drop every 3 days, but still 95 the first week). What is your experience with temps? If not 95 this first week, then what temp? Tomorrow they are a week old fram hatch but I will only have had them 5 days and I was planning on dropping my thermostat to 90 degrees. What do you recommend I do instead? Thanks again.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

I am sorry too. And just to be clear, my comment about none of my research or phone conversations with the hatchery warning about the risks of pine shavings had nothing to do with this forum.. I just became aware of and joined this forum the other day after getting my keets. My frustration was with the hundreds of keet articles I read from other sources, the multiple phone conversations with the hatchery in preparation for my keets, and the local feed supply that never said anything about pine shaving risks and actually pointed me to pine shavings for keets. All I was told to avoid was newspape and saw dust. This forum has been a great in the few days I have known about it. I am sorry if my prior comment appeared I meant this forum misinformed me.
It is overwhelming because there are so many sources saying different things...medicated food is toxic to keets/medicated food is fine, no grit in the first few weeks/grit from the beginning, etc. - I thought I was good to go with the research and leg work I did prior to their arrival. Then they start dying and your heart is torn apart and you feel like an utter failure to these helpless little lives.
Last night we did a complete bedding change and also checked everyone for pasty butt. We put down some grit and went to bed. So far this morning everyone seems perky and active so hopefully pine shavings were the problem. Thank you for your response.

Hi abarglof, I see that you are a new member - welcome to BYCs!!! I hope that you’ll enjoy this site. I agree with you that there is a ton of conflicting information out there about keets and guineas in general. I guess that means that there are a lot of ways that have worked for people... When I hatched my first eggs from an friend, I did a lot of reading and concluded that I should brood the keets with chicks so the keets would be tamer and the birds would all be friends. That turned out not to be the case - those first guineas are now my only ones fixated on attacking our other poultry! It turns out many people have observed that phenomenon before - wish I’d known that! So much has been learning as I go, and making mistake after mistake. I just buried a treasured hen yesterday and rescued an injured guinea from my dog right afterwards, then my kid let my sick cat out of the house after dark - not a good animal day. I’m so sorry that you’ve been losing keets; it’s so stressful to have their little lives depend on you when your hard work isn’t enough to save them.

It sounds to me like your general setup is pretty typical, but if you wanted to post some pictures and maybe temperatures at different locations in the brooder, food, water, etc. I’m sure you will get input that can help you maximize your keets’ health. Were your keets shipped? Another poster was on this forum talking about losses of shipped keets over several days. I think that shipping is hard on chicks, and even harder on keets. They might take some time to recover, and the worst off might take a few days to die. I had a difficult hatch last year of some seriously contaminated eggs, and I started giving the babies water with Nutridrench the first day or two after hatching. I don’t know if it really helped, but I expected to lose a lot of those compromised hatchlings and lost very few. I hope that your new little flock stabilizes amd thrives for you!

 

[R2elk]

Hello. Thank you for your response. My keets will not be a week old until tomorrow afternoon. All of the research I did states to keep them at 95 degrees the first week and to drop it by 5 degrees each week after that (a couple articles saying 5 degree drop every 3 days, but still 95 the first week). What is your experience with temps? If not 95 this first week, then what temp? Tomorrow they are a week old fram hatch but I will only have had them 5 days and I was planning on dropping my thermostat to 90 degrees. What do you recommend I do instead? Thanks again.

I am well aware that most data says to start keets at 95°F. Most of these sources omit the part about it being measured at the bedding level. If you are measuring the air temperature, it will make the bedding level far too hot. I did start keets at 95°F one time. Prior to that one time I always started them at 90°F and now continue to start them at 90°F. If a person only has a couple of keets, I can see starting them at 95°F but for a large batch, they help keep each other warm and 90°F has worked fine for me.

 

[Sydney65]

Hi, Abarglof- just read your posts, & it was like reading myself a year ago, so let me make this easier -maybe. After the 1st 2 terrifying wks I had 6 guineas left,and they're still thriving, thanks to R2Elk. Anyway, the 1st several months is all in one thread- you can skim the hokey parts, mine are apparently abnormally tame. But I had lots of questions (still do). So skim the hokey, but you'll get a lot of good info thanks to r2elk. https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/wk-3.1328223/