Hands on hatching and help

[jenniferlamar70]

This is my second hatch, and with the first I had one chick survive, which I had to help out, humidity was not getting high enough... anyways with this hatch I have had the humidity up to 70% and I had an early hatcher that pipped Friday night and hatched yesterday morning... now the other 4 have done nothing (today is day 21) I had to take the chick out last night, even though I was trying to not open the bator, because it was able to get out of the container I had them in and into a small container of water.  Since I opened it anyways and haven't seen any egg movement with the others I decided that I would do a quick candling of the others... I can't see any movement and the air sacs look large... but there is possibly a shadow in the air sac... I'm not sure.. everyone says if you open the bator you have killed the other chicks, but I tend to think that is a bit extreme!  So what do ya'all think? What should I do, I really am having a hard time not knowing if they are alive or not :/ Should I float test, or just wait?

I would give it time. Mine may start hatching on day 21 but the hatch won't finish till close to day 23. 70 percent is a bit high unless you plan on opening the incubator alot. I try not to at first though.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

This is my second hatch, and with the first I had one chick survive, which I had to help out, humidity was not getting high enough... anyways with this hatch I have had the humidity up to 70% and I had an early hatcher that pipped Friday night and hatched yesterday morning... now the other 4 have done nothing (today is day 21) I had to take the chick out last night, even though I was trying to not open the bator, because it was able to get out of the container I had them in and into a small container of water.  Since I opened it anyways and haven't seen any egg movement with the others I decided that I would do a quick candling of the others... I can't see any movement and the air sacs look large... but there is possibly a shadow in the air sac... I'm not sure.. everyone says if you open the bator you have killed the other chicks, but I tend to think that is a bit extreme!  So what do ya'all think? What should I do, I really am having a hard time not knowing if they are alive or not :/ Should I float test, or just wait?

No, opening the incubator won't kill the other eggs, actually it has no effect on unpipped eggs. If you have pipped eggs and your humidity isn't high enough it can cause drying around the pip hole, but it won't kill them, if the membranes dry enough it can stick to the chick hindering the movement, but if you are monitoring that can be corrected, however, if you keep the humidity up there shouldn't be an issue.

A shadow in the air cell is a good sign, better if you can see it move. I'm not an advocate of float testing and it shouldn't be done if there are any possibility of an internal pip.

I would give it another day, see if the one you think may be internally pipped is still viable.

 

[mtnvwheritage]

I would give it time. Mine may start hatching on day 21 but the hatch won't finish till close to day 23. 70 percent is a bit high unless you plan on opening the incubator alot. I try not to at first though.

Right, and I wouldn't be concerned on day 21, except the fact there has been no movement... with my last hatch, even though 4 didn't make it out and were dried up, there was plenty of egg rocking and rolling right up until the end :/ I have it at 70% because our heat in the house is really drying so it dries out quick, trying to give it a bit of wiggle room, especially considering the last hatch having been shrink wrapped :/ Just trying to get a feel if anyone else has had the "no movement" issue and still had hatches I guess..

 

[mtnvwheritage]

No, opening the incubator won't kill the other eggs, actually it has no effect on unpipped eggs. If you have pipped eggs and your humidity isn't high enough it can cause drying around the pip hole, but it won't kill them, if the membranes dry enough it can stick to the chick hindering the movement, but if you are monitoring that can be corrected, however, if you keep the humidity up there shouldn't be an issue.

A shadow in the air cell is a good sign, better if you can see it move. I'm not an advocate of float testing and it shouldn't be done if there are any possibility of an internal pip.

I would give it another day, see if the one you think may be internally pipped is still viable.

Okay good to hear it!, I was reading several other posts on BYC and felt like that really couldn't be true! No pips so I think we are good

Okay I won't float test, I haven't before, so wasn't sure! thanks, I will give it a bit more time and try to sit on my hands! lol

 

[jenniferlamar70]

Right, and I wouldn't be concerned on day 21, except the fact there has been no movement... with my last hatch, even though 4 didn't make it out and were dried up, there was plenty of egg rocking and rolling right up until the end :/  I have it at 70% because our heat in the house is really drying so it dries out quick, trying to give it a bit of wiggle room, especially considering the last hatch having been shrink wrapped :/ Just trying to get a feel if anyone else has had the "no movement" issue and still had hatches I guess..

I've had some late hatchers with no movement but usually you can see them breathing. Depends on if they have internally pipper yet.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

Okay good to hear it!, I was reading several other posts on BYC and felt like that really couldn't be true! No pips so I think we are good

Okay I won't float test,  I haven't before, so wasn't sure! thanks, I will give it a bit more time and try to sit on my hands! lol 

It is a well believed belief, and there are still hatchers that believe it with all their heart, that opening an incubator with pipped eggs will surely cause them to become shrink wrapped and die. I am a hands on hatcher...thus the thread...lol I have no limitations to opening the bator during hatch. I do take care to keep my humidity up. I use wet sponge in the bator so it's easy to rewet and keep humidity up.

 

[WVduckchick]

It is a well believed belief, and there are still hatchers that believe it with all their heart, that opening an incubator with pipped eggs will surely cause them to become shrink wrapped and die. I am a hands on hatcher...thus the thread...lol I have no limitations to opening the bator during hatch. I do take care to keep my humidity up. I use wet sponge in the bator so it's easy to rewet and keep humidity up.

You would think by now, that as many "hands on" folks as we have on this thread, that we had dispelled that misconception by now, but alas, it still runs rampant.

Thursday/Friday, I recorded the time of every call duck pip. Friday evening, I lost one pipper because I didn't assist. It hadn't been 24 hours yet, so I was trying to give it time. After that, I went down my list, individually pulling every single pipper to assist, and any that started to zip and stalled, jumped to the top of the list. They had all been well over 24 hours by this point.

Amazingly, I ended up with 13 beautiful ducklings. No way in hades any of them would have survived without assistance.

*of course, these are call ducks, so I'm not advocating helping all the time, every chick, but I knew when the time had come. Pips, partial zips or not, I had to open the bator many, many times.

Lookie what I got for my troubles!

 

[PD-Riverman]

It is a well believed belief, and there are still hatchers that believe it with all their heart, that opening an incubator with pipped eggs will surely cause them to become shrink wrapped and die. I am a hands on hatcher...thus the thread...lol I have no limitations to opening the bator during hatch. I do take care to keep my humidity up. I use wet sponge in the bator so it's easy to rewet and keep humidity up.

Not a debate Amy---a question. Do you feel that anyone can be a great HOH(hands on hatcher) from the beginning---opening the incubator at will or do you feel there is things they would have to learn to do--- You know---like when to open, when to try to help, when to wait, about the humidity, etc, etc before they should try it???

 

[AmyLynn2374]

Not a debate Amy---a question. Do you feel that anyone can be a great HOH(hands on hatcher) from the beginning---opening the incubator at will or do you feel there is things they would have to learn to do--- You know---like when to open, when to try to help, when to wait, about the humidity, etc, etc before they should try it???

Fair question.
I have to answer it in two regards though.
I think anyone can have a successful hatch while being able to open the incubator providing they keep their humidity up and they have incubators that recover the loss quickly which most table top incubators do. To take out chicks, shells, readjust eggs. I don't think a person with average intelligence needs extra training. (Of course the average level of intelligence seems to be diminishing in my opinion.)

As for assisting I do think that's a whole other ballgame. I think anyone with guidance, the willingness to learn and at least a modicum of patience can be a successful hands on hatcher in regards to assisting, but I think to really be proficient and do it right at the right time, the experience of others that are successful is very much needed, or at least the most beneficial.

As much as I hate to say this, I learned a lot from Sally's assisting article. The importance of time and knowing when to stop, specifically. I still had to learn to draw my own conclusions of course and follow my instincts, but the most important thing, I believe is knowing enough to give them that 24 hours ish, not rushing in, as hard as it is, and knowing when to stop once you start, accepting the fact, the chick is not ready, and giving them that extra time.

I believe that most people that swear off assisting because they've tried it and never had any luck are on the average in two groups. First group being the ones that really didn't know what they were doing. Assisted too soon, too fast-not stopping when they should have and their lack of knowledge was their downfall. Second group being assisting a rather lost cause. If you have a delayed hatch on day 24 and you're assisting because the chicks are too weak, of course you shouldn't expect a high success rate with the assists. The chicks are already at a disadvantage due to a less than successful incubation. I'm not saying a willing person shouldn't help, just that your expectations for success shouldn't be as high. If you are assisting a malpositioned, on time hatcher, or a chick that has membrane drying to him because of a less than perfect humidity condition, there is no reason to consider it a lost cause because it needs help or too assume it's too weak or not good enough to be given a chance. I've honestly only ever had one assist of an on time chick die, and that was 9 days after hatch due to digestive issues I believe. Could those issues have made it weaker to need assistance, it's possible. At hatch it seemed very strong and active. It did for a week with very running diarrhea being the only thing out of place. (It was way more than typical pasty butt.) But I gave it a chance. Assisting does mean that you will have to face the possibility that the chick you help may need to be later culled because of a greater problem. That's not easy. But from my perspective, I'd rather have to cull that one chick periodically if I am able to save one, two, three others by giving them that chance. Bottom line, no matter what you decide you have to be able to live with that decision because second guessing is never going to fix it.

You would think by now, that as many "hands on" folks as we have on this thread, that we had dispelled that misconception by now, but alas, it still runs rampant.

Thursday/Friday, I recorded the time of every call duck pip. Friday evening, I lost one pipper because I didn't assist. It hadn't been 24 hours yet, so I was trying to give it time. After that, I went down my list, individually pulling every single pipper to assist, and any that started to zip and stalled, jumped to the top of the list. They had all been well over 24 hours by this point.

Amazingly, I ended up with 13 beautiful ducklings. No way in hades any of them would have survived without assistance.

*of course, these are call ducks, so I'm not advocating helping all the time, every chick, but I knew when the time had come. Pips, partial zips or not, I had to open the bator many, many times.

Lookie what I got for my troubles!

Amen and adorable! Good job duck mommy!

 

[PD-Riverman]

Fair question.
I have to answer it in two regards though.
I think anyone can have a successful hatch while being able to open the incubator providing they keep their humidity up and they have incubators that recover the loss quickly which most table top incubators do. To take out chicks, shells, readjust eggs. I don't think a person with average intelligence needs extra training. (Of course the average level of intelligence seems to be diminishing in my opinion.)

As for assisting I do think that's a whole other ballgame. I think anyone with guidance, the willingness to learn and at least a modicum of patience can be a successful hands on hatcher in regards to assisting, but I think to really be proficient and do it right at the right time, the experience of others that are successful is very much needed, or at least the most beneficial.

As much as I hate to say this, I learned a lot from Sally's assisting article. The importance of time and knowing when to stop, specifically. I still had to learn to draw my own conclusions of course and follow my instincts, but the most important thing, I believe is knowing enough to give them that 24 hours ish, not rushing in, as hard as it is, and knowing when to stop once you start, accepting the fact, the chick is not ready, and giving them that extra time.

I believe that most people that swear off assisting because they've tried it and never had any luck are on the average in two groups. First group being the ones that really didn't know what they were doing. Assisted too soon, too fast-not stopping when they should have and their lack of knowledge was their downfall. Second group being assisting a rather lost cause. If you have a delayed hatch on day 24 and you're assisting because the chicks are too weak, of course you shouldn't expect a high success rate with the assists. The chicks are already at a disadvantage due to a less than successful incubation. I'm not saying a willing person shouldn't help, just that your expectations for success shouldn't be as high. If you are assisting a malpositioned, on time hatcher, or a chick that has membrane drying to him because of a less than perfect humidity condition, there is no reason to consider it a lost cause because it needs help or too assume it's too weak or not good enough to be given a chance. I've honestly only ever had one assist of an on time chick die, and that was 9 days after hatch due to digestive issues I believe. Could those issues have made it weaker to need assistance, it's possible. At hatch it seemed very strong and active. It did for a week with very running diarrhea being the only thing out of place. (It was way more than typical pasty butt.) But I gave it a chance. Assisting does mean that you will have to face the possibility that the chick you help may need to be later culled because of a greater problem. That's not easy. But from my perspective, I'd rather have to cull that one chick periodically if I am able to save one, two, three others by giving them that chance. Bottom line, no matter what you decide you have to be able to live with that decision because second guessing is never going to fix it.

That's a great answer. I feel if I decided to become a Hands on hatcher I would work hard to figure out what is needed, when to do what I feel needs to be done and I feel I might get good at it---If I chose to do that.

My concern which is the reason for asking the question is Newbie's. People that do not know, some that have really bad hatches---need to realize that you need to learn, not just snatch open the incubator during lock-down at will without knowing some important facts---I am concerned just like alot of others on here---my Goal is to help people have better hatches!