Hands on hatching and help

[mtnvwheritage]

Fair question.
I have to answer it in two regards though.
I think anyone can have a successful hatch while being able to open the incubator providing they keep their humidity up and they have incubators that recover the loss quickly which most table top incubators do. To take out chicks, shells, readjust eggs. I don't think a person with average intelligence needs extra training. (Of course the average level of intelligence seems to be diminishing in my opinion.)

As for assisting I do think that's a whole other ballgame. I think anyone with guidance, the willingness to learn and at least a modicum of patience can be a successful hands on hatcher in regards to assisting, but I think to really be proficient and do it right at the right time, the experience of others that are successful is very much needed, or at least the most beneficial.

As much as I hate to say this, I learned a lot from Sally's assisting article. The importance of time and knowing when to stop, specifically. I still had to learn to draw my own conclusions of course and follow my instincts, but the most important thing, I believe is knowing enough to give them that 24 hours ish, not rushing in, as hard as it is, and knowing when to stop once you start, accepting the fact, the chick is not ready, and giving them that extra time.

I believe that most people that swear off assisting because they've tried it and never had any luck are on the average in two groups. First group being the ones that really didn't know what they were doing. Assisted too soon, too fast-not stopping when they should have and their lack of knowledge was their downfall. Second group being assisting a rather lost cause. If you have a delayed hatch on day 24 and you're assisting because the chicks are too weak, of course you shouldn't expect a high success rate with the assists. The chicks are already at a disadvantage due to a less than successful incubation. I'm not saying a willing person shouldn't help, just that your expectations for success shouldn't be as high. If you are assisting a malpositioned, on time hatcher, or a chick that has membrane drying to him because of a less than perfect humidity condition, there is no reason to consider it a lost cause because it needs help or too assume it's too weak or not good enough to be given a chance. I've honestly only ever had one assist of an on time chick die, and that was 9 days after hatch due to digestive issues I believe. Could those issues have made it weaker to need assistance, it's possible. At hatch it seemed very strong and active. It did for a week with very running diarrhea being the only thing out of place. (It was way more than typical pasty butt.) But I gave it a chance. Assisting does mean that you will have to face the possibility that the chick you help may need to be later culled because of a greater problem. That's not easy. But from my perspective, I'd rather have to cull that one chick periodically if I am able to save one, two, three others by giving them that chance. Bottom line, no matter what you decide you have to be able to live with that decision because second guessing is never going to fix it.
Amen and adorable! Good job duck mommy!

Very good answer, I'm definitely a "newbie" but have done lots of research, and because of that was able to save a both a duck from a previous hatch and a chick with my last hatch due to the membrane drying out... however I had read when to help and when to stop, and made sure to be very careful and put it back when it needed more time etc... it actually in its own movements pulled off the last bit which was at its belly and started bleeding, luckily I had read and had my cornstarch ready to stop the bleed! Now its a month old and is perfectly healthy, I wouldn't have that one had I not helped... it was the only one out of the hatch that did make it, but I think I got a bad batch of hatching eggs or something because every one of them was malpositioned including the one I assisted... I also have a background in labor and delivery, so tend to be a "helper" while also being educated and careful

 

[Pyxis]

That's a great answer. I feel if I decided to become a Hands on hatcher I would work hard to figure out what is needed, when to do what I feel needs to be done and I feel I might get good at it---If I chose to do that.

My concern which is the reason for asking the question is Newbie's. People that do not know, some that have really bad hatches---need to realize that you need to learn, not just snatch open the incubator during lock-down at will without knowing some important facts---I am concerned just like alot of others on here---my Goal is to help people have better hatches!

Newbies with guidance can definitely do it. I've guided lots of people who had never done an assisted hatch before or just plain never hatched before through a necessary assisted hatch. The only way to learn is by doing, and in some cases if you do nothing the chick is going to die, so either you help and possibly save it or you do nothing and it dies for sure.

If you check back through the thread you'll see that when we give advice to people we always caution them to wait, be patient, don't try to help until enough time has passed that it's clear something may be wrong. And at that stage we still encourage them to go slow, check what the situation is before rushing in, and to stop if they see any signs that a chick isn't ready to hatch yet.

Now, people rushing in to try to do things without doing research or asking for help, that's another matter entirely and of course we don't encourage that. People that are rushing or going too fast are gently corrected here.

 

[WVduckchick]

That's a great answer. I feel if I decided to become a Hands on hatcher I would work hard to figure out what is needed, when to do what I feel needs to be done and I feel I might get good at it---If I chose to do that.

My concern which is the reason for asking the question is Newbie's. People that do not know, some that have really bad hatches---need to realize that you need to learn, not just snatch open the incubator during lock-down at will without knowing some important facts---I am concerned just like alot of others on here---my Goal is to help people have better hatches!

It's nice to know that you are open minded about it. I was thinking... with your 100% hatch rates all the time, why would you ever have a reason to assist? But if you ever have a power failure, or something unforeseen goes wrong with your equipment and you are faced with the decision of helping, I'm glad you are open to considering it. And we'd be here to answer any questions you may have.

 

[mamabear2005]

I am new to hatching and don't know what I'd do without all the great advice! There is no way I could do nothing if I thought something was wrong. I will be looking to you guys for help if the time ever comes! I set my first eggs Wednesday afternoon and just had to candle today...6 little embryos!!

thanks to everyone sharing their knowledge here!

 

[AmyLynn2374]

That's a great answer. I feel if I decided to become a Hands on hatcher I would work hard to figure out what is needed, when to do what I feel needs to be done and I feel I might get good at it---If I chose to do that.

My concern which is the reason for asking the question is Newbie's. People that do not know, some that have really bad hatches---need to realize that you need to learn, not just snatch open the incubator during lock-down at will without knowing some important facts---I am concerned just like alot of others on here---my Goal is to help people have better hatches!

You'll notice than usually when I talk about opening a bator I stress make sure humidity is up. I feel like a broken record always repeating I hatch at no less than 70% usually 75% + but I think it's important to note I don't recommend it running on the low end of hatch humidity.

That was the whole reason for having the hands on hatching and HELP thread. So that those of us that do can help those that want to but need the guidance. My fear is a hatcher that wants to help, but is being condemned by a hands off hatcher so instead of getting useful guidance they set out on their own and possibly do more damage than good because they didn't have that support.

Also, if a person is having really bad hatches, the first thing I try to do is help them troubleshoot to find out why. (And more often than not it's humidity.) Because you can try to help, but if you don't find the cause you're just going to keep running in circles with each hatch.

Very good answer, I'm definitely a "newbie" but have done lots of research, and because of that was able to save a both a duck from a previous hatch and a chick with my last hatch due to the membrane drying out... however I had read when to help and when to stop, and made sure to be very careful and put it back when it needed more time etc... it actually in its own movements pulled off the last bit which was at its belly and started bleeding, luckily I had read and had my cornstarch ready to stop the bleed! Now its a month old and is perfectly healthy, I wouldn't have that one had I not helped... it was the only one out of the hatch that did make it, but I think I got a bad batch of hatching eggs or something because every one of them was malpositioned including the one I assisted... I also have a background in labor and delivery, so tend to be a "helper" while also being educated and careful

Awesome! High humidity, can cause many malpositioned chicks in one hatch, among other reasons.

Newbies with guidance can definitely do it. I've guided lots of people who had never done an assisted hatch before or just plain never hatched before through a necessary assisted hatch. The only way to learn is by doing, and in some cases if you do nothing the chick is going to die, so either you help and possibly save it or you do nothing and it dies for sure.

If you check back through the thread you'll see that when we give advice to people we always caution them to wait, be patient, don't try to help until enough time has passed that it's clear something may be wrong. And at that stage we still encourage them to go slow, check what the situation is before rushing in, and to stop if they see any signs that a chick isn't ready to hatch yet.

Now, people rushing in to try to do things without doing research or asking for help, that's another matter entirely and of course we don't encourage that. People that are rushing or going too fast are gently corrected here.

Ditto

I am new to hatching and don't know what I'd do without all the great advice! There is no way I could do nothing if I thought something was wrong. I will be looking to you guys for help if the time ever comes! I set my first eggs Wednesday afternoon and just had to candle today...6 little embryos!!

thanks to everyone sharing their knowledge here!

Welcome to the addictive world of hatching and the thread! Good luck with your hatch!

 

[PD-Riverman]

It's nice to know that you are open minded about it. I was thinking... with your 100% hatch rates all the time, why would you ever have a reason to assist? But if you ever have a power failure, or something unforeseen goes wrong with your equipment and you are faced with the decision of helping, I'm glad you are open to considering it. And we'd be here to answer any questions you may have.

I was just saying "IF" I decided? I would for sure want to be good at is so I would ask questions and learn. When I first come on here steady I did come down kinda hard on Newbie's that had a lot of problems and told them they should keep the incubator closed during the hatch---Amy and I had a few conversations----I think she might be forgave me now or tolerates me---then she started her hands on post. I knew I had problems when I opened at will so I figured that's why they were having problems. All I wanted to do then and Now was help-----If you go back through every post I have made---I do not remember ever asking for help. I really have been the type that tries to work out my own problems if I had them. I do not know a lot of you, but I do know a lot of you have got your Hands-on-hatching worked out where you are good at it. OK I keep seeing post from newbie's that have a Mess----do not know about hands-on hatching and out of respect for the hands-on-hatchers----I do not tell them they should keep the incubator closed----I guess from the above post I would just tell them if they are going to do hands on they really need to ask questions before they do something instead of way after.


I have helped so many Local people become better hatchers, people at the Auction ask me what and how all the time---local FB chicken pages etc. I really enjoy helping---I really want everyone to have great hatches.

I am not here to brag, I just figured out how to incubate with almost 100% every hatch so I want to help others get close to that, but I have been attacked, Trying to make people believe I am lying about my Hatch % even a few days ago about my 100% hatch on peachicks. I am no lier---but personal attacks makes me just wanta forget trying---then I think about the Lady In Canada that was trying to hatch but was having real low hatch rated----she PM me for Help----She had real good equipment---2 GQF cabinet incubators and 2 GQF hatcher and 2 R-Com cabinet incubators---with a few conversations she is now in the high 90's% hatch and is so happy---I am Very happy for her---so I keep on trying to help. Please keep in mind if you see my post--- I just want to help----but being honest--I am kinda down about continuing--- Thanks

 

[AmyLynn2374]

I was just saying "IF" I decided? I would for sure want to be good at is so I would ask questions and learn. When I first come on here steady I did come down kinda hard on Newbie's that had a lot of problems and told them they should keep the incubator closed during the hatch---Amy and I had a few conversations----I think she might be forgave me now or tolerates me---then she started her hands on post. I knew I had problems when I opened at will so I figured that's why they were having problems. All I wanted to do then and Now was help-----If you go back through every post I have made---I do not remember ever asking for help. I really have been the type that tries to work out my own problems if I had them. I do not know a lot of you, but I do know a lot of you have got your Hands-on-hatching worked out where you are good at it. OK I keep seeing post from newbie's that have a Mess----do not know about hands-on hatching and out of respect for the hands-on-hatchers----I do not tell them they should keep the incubator closed----I guess from the above post I would just tell them if they are going to do hands on they really need to ask questions before they do something instead of way after.


I have helped so many Local people become better hatchers, people at the Auction ask me what and how all the time---local FB chicken pages etc. I really enjoy helping---I really want everyone to have great hatches.

I am not here to brag, I just figured out how to incubate with almost 100% every hatch so I want to help others get close to that, but I have been attacked, Trying to make people believe I am lying about my Hatch % even a few days ago about my 100% hatch on peachicks. I am no lier---but personal attacks makes me just wanta forget trying---then I think about the Lady In Canada that was trying to hatch but was having real low hatch rated----she PM me for Help----She had real good equipment---2 GQF cabinet incubators and 2 GQF hatcher and 2 R-Com cabinet incubators---with a few conversations she is now in the high 90's% hatch and is so happy---I am Very happy for her---so I keep on trying to help. Please keep in mind if you see my post--- I just want to help----but being honest--I am kinda down about continuing---  Thanks

Lol, yeah we had our share of run ins...lol not because I have any problem with people choosing to be hands off, but I can't stand the statements that opening the bator will kill all your chicks. Of course, trying it a different way if you are having bad results is never wrong. I've seen people afraid, scared to death to even add water to their bator when it was low during lockdown and that really bugs me. I love seeing the development and progression during incubation and I hate to see people that want that experience being so scared they can't enjoy that. Now I have always admitted, and the girls can attest to it, I have always admitted, I'm extreme. More extreme than even I need to be. And if I ever find it affecting my hatch, I will surely adjust to prevent that, but as long as I can have good hatches and get all the enjoyment of being a meddler, then, that's my style. And yes, it's obvious you like to help.

 

[WVduckchick]

I was just saying "IF" I decided? I would for sure want to be good at is so I would ask questions and learn. When I first come on here steady I did come down kinda hard on Newbie's that had a lot of problems and told them they should keep the incubator closed during the hatch---Amy and I had a few conversations----I think she might be forgave me now or tolerates me---then she started her hands on post. I knew I had problems when I opened at will so I figured that's why they were having problems. All I wanted to do then and Now was help-----If you go back through every post I have made---I do not remember ever asking for help. I really have been the type that tries to work out my own problems if I had them. I do not know a lot of you, but I do know a lot of you have got your Hands-on-hatching worked out where you are good at it. OK I keep seeing post from newbie's that have a Mess----do not know about hands-on hatching and out of respect for the hands-on-hatchers----I do not tell them they should keep the incubator closed----I guess from the above post I would just tell them if they are going to do hands on they really need to ask questions before they do something instead of way after.


I have helped so many Local people become better hatchers, people at the Auction ask me what and how all the time---local FB chicken pages etc. I really enjoy helping---I really want everyone to have great hatches.

I am not here to brag, I just figured out how to incubate with almost 100% every hatch so I want to help others get close to that, but I have been attacked, Trying to make people believe I am lying about my Hatch % even a few days ago about my 100% hatch on peachicks. I am no lier---but personal attacks makes me just wanta forget trying---then I think about the Lady In Canada that was trying to hatch but was having real low hatch rated----she PM me for Help----She had real good equipment---2 GQF cabinet incubators and 2 GQF hatcher and 2 R-Com cabinet incubators---with a few conversations she is now in the high 90's% hatch and is so happy---I am Very happy for her---so I keep on trying to help. Please keep in mind if you see my post--- I just want to help----but being honest--I am kinda down about continuing---  Thanks

I'm sorry you felt attacked. I thought you knew me well enough to know that's not what I meant. And I also know you enjoy helping. We all do! We all want new folks to have successful hatches, because many of us failed early on. I was kinda joking, kinda not, that with your 100% hatches, you really don't know what is going on inside the egg like we do, because you haven't had to learn like we did. You have great equipment that works well for you, and I'm happy for you. But you must admit, that when it gets into the nitty gritty, you obviously haven't had that type of experience that some of us had.

I hope you won't stop trying to help. I know you have helped many countless members.

 

[PD-Riverman]

I'm sorry you felt attacked. I thought you knew me well enough to know that's not what I meant. And I also know you enjoy helping. We all do! We all want new folks to have successful hatches, because many of us failed early on. I was kinda joking, kinda not, that with your 100% hatches, you really don't know what is going on inside the egg like we do, because you haven't had to learn like we did. You have great equipment that works well for you, and I'm happy for you. But you must admit, that when it gets into the nitty gritty, you obviously haven't had that type of experience that some of us had.

I hope you won't stop trying to help. I know you have helped many countless members.

No---I did not take your post above as a attack. We Good! I will admit I have not got much experience in hands on hatching and with the cabinet I candle on day 12 "some times" and day 18 every time, BUT I do not do as some of you----I do not hold the egg to see the heart beat or if it moves. I usually pick up with one hand and place on the candler and take off with the other hand only taking a second on the light---I can go through 200 to 300 eggs in 15 to 20 minutes. I never had a desire to slow down to watch the embryo, the heart beat etc. A few days ago I candled about 150 I am incubating for a lady that has good equipment---just a BAD hatch rate---I have tried to explain---its not doing any good so she sweet talks me into hatching some for her----often. (She gave me about 150 more to set the next week) She has some of the Ayam cemani in these and wants them to hatch so she does not trust herself! I slowed down and checked some of the eggs---more than I ever have---for a few eggs---then right back at it like I was working on a quota. I appreciate the Life in those eggs but taking 5 minutes to look at each does not interest me----maybe because I have studied hatching sheets/pictures in the beginning and I know whats happening in there.

 

[mtnvwheritage]

No---I did not take your post above as a attack. We Good! I will admit I have not got much experience in hands on hatching and with the cabinet I candle on day 12 "some times" and day 18 every time, BUT I do not do as some of you----I do not hold the egg to see the heart beat or if it moves. I usually pick up with one hand and place on the candler and take off with the other hand only taking a second on the light---I can go through 200 to 300 eggs in 15 to 20 minutes. I never had a desire to slow down to watch the embryo, the heart beat etc. A few days ago I candled about 150 I am incubating for a lady that has good equipment---just a BAD hatch rate---I have tried to explain---its not doing any good so she sweet talks me into hatching some for her----often. (She gave me about 150 more to set the next week) She has some of the Ayam cemani in these and wants them to hatch so she does not trust herself! I slowed down and checked some of the eggs---more than I ever have---for a few eggs---then right back at it like I was working on a quota. I appreciate the Life in those eggs but taking 5 minutes to look at each does not interest me----maybe because I have studied hatching sheets/pictures in the beginning and I know whats happening in there.

I am a newbie, obviously, but I find it just amazing being able to candle them, its like seeing into a womb, watching them twist and turn around, its such a miracle. But I gotta get onto perfect temp and humidity and all that if I am going to hatch these little miracles, lol, I have tried believe me, but 2 things, there is so much conflicting info... especially on humidity. And also equipment issues here, we have had everything from running out of oil in the house and the temp dropping, to bad hygrometers, to this last one where the chick (I watched for hours to make sure it couldn't get out of the container) getting out and into a water dish, forcing me to open the bator..ugh, wish I could afford to get a incubator so I wouldn't have so many issues