Hatching at high altitude

[lgc1970]

The soda lime being referred to by R2elk is not true soda lime for rebreathers.

There are products for scuba diving and anesthetic masks called soda lime that can be purchased to reduce CO2 levels (!! CAUTION !! there are 3 kinds of soda lime; a not true soda lime [more often identified as soda lime glass or soda flake] version for CO2 removal that can produce toxic hydrogen-peroxide fumes! among other things, a medical grade that can be purchased from a vet supply source that is safe but off-gasses small amounts of ammonia, and a product for scuba diving rebreathers without a color changing dye referred to as Soda Lime NI) a small amount of the soda lime will react with CO2 and change the soda lime to calcium carbonate (inert), heat, and water; then once finished reacting it will cool. It should be removed, tossed into the regular garbage while still warm, and then replaced. This is beneficial to CO2 reduction, but will increase the temperature and humidity, which means the vents need to be opened while using it.

Medical grade soda lime and soda lime NI for rebreathers is NON-HYGROSCOPIC, and intended for use inside the tubing set up that patients breath through during surgery or that divers breath through while diving. It can be an irritant for skin and eyes, but it is not a requirement to rinse under water for extended periods of time. This stuff just gets warm during the reaction. It does not react with metal or melt plastic as those are the types of materials it is made to be in contact with.

True soda lime will only react with CO2 to produce heat, oxygen, water, and calcium carbonate; all inert.

I am simply using the cheese cloth right out of the package, and keeping it sort of away from the eggs. The heat produced may be enough to raise an egg a couple degrees. That would be bad!

 

[Pozees]

Very useful information, thank you!

 

[lgc1970]

I have found a website that can explain what R2elk is referring to.

http://www.lime.org/uses_of_lime/other_uses/industrial-chem_uses.asp

This is NOT medical grade soda lime or soda lime NI. I cannot even find a way to purchase this type of lime-soda without being an industry in need of the product, but I am certain there is a way [there is always a way]. As you read through the description you can see that this stuff has toxic byproducts, is caustic, and should be AVOIDED! Not kidding.

Below is a picture of the bag that the soda lime I am using comes in. Pozees is buying the very same product, from I believe the very same distributor.

I will keep everyone up to date on my incubation progress. So, you can wait to hear how my story goes before you go buying this stuff. It is not outrageous, but it is not by any means cheap either ($7.80 + S&H $10 flat fee). I ordered several bags, because after talking to a couple of my Chemical Engineering friends from college (I am a Civil Engineer) I believed that this was exactly what I was looking for to 'scrub' the CO2 from my bator environment. 1 bag should last through 2 incubation cycles, which works out to about $5 / bator run for me.

To date even though I started out with 60 eggs; several were removed (10 clears, 7 blood rings, then 5 at Day 9) before the soda lime was added. So, I am going to start my count at 43 for this experiment. I do not know if those last 5 would have survived had I put the soda lime in on Day 5; therefore, I am going to count them in my total loses for this experiment.

If I am able to hatch out 50% at my elevation, then I believe that this experiment can be identified a success. That means I need to hatch out 22 from the 43 eggs. Does anyone agree with that assessment? Should I hatch out 22 or more, then I have 1 giant piece of my hatching puzzle. If I hatch out 16 or more, then I will try it again placing the soda lime in at earlier and earlier days to find the greatest benefit (I probably will do this anyway, as I just cannot give up after 1 or 2 tries nor after 1 scenario). If it truly is a flop, then hopefully I have only wasted my own $50.

9 Days and Counting ...

 

[Pozees]

I have found a website that can explain what R2elk is referring to.

http://www.lime.org/uses_of_lime/other_uses/industrial-chem_uses.asp

This is NOT medical grade soda lime or soda lime NI. I cannot even find a way to purchase this type of lime-soda without being an industry in need of the product, but I am certain there is a way [there is always a way]. As you read through the description you can see that this stuff has toxic byproducts, is caustic, and should be AVOIDED! Not kidding.

Below is a picture of the bag that the soda lime I am using comes in. Pozees is buying the very same product, from I believe the very same distributor.



I will keep everyone up to date on my incubation progress. So, you can wait to hear how my story goes before you go buying this stuff. It is not outrageous, but it is not by any means cheap either ($7.80 + S&H $10 flat fee). I ordered several bags, because after talking to a couple of my Chemical Engineering friends from college (I am a Civil Engineer) I believed that this was exactly what I was looking for to 'scrub' the CO2 from my bator environment. 1 bag should last through 2 incubation cycles, which works out to about $5 / bator run for me.

To date even though I started out with 60 eggs; several were removed (10 clears, 7 blood rings, then 5 at Day 9) before the soda lime was added. So, I am going to start my count at 43 for this experiment. I do not know if those last 5 would have survived had I put the soda lime in on Day 5; therefore, I am going to count them in my total loses for this experiment.

If I am able to hatch out 50% at my elevation, then I believe that this experiment can be identified a success. That means I need to hatch out 22 from the 43 eggs. Does anyone agree with that assessment? Should I hatch out 22 or more, then I have 1 giant piece of my hatching puzzle. If I hatch out 16 or more, then I will try it again placing the soda lime in at earlier and earlier days to find the greatest benefit (I probably will do this anyway, as I just cannot give up after 1 or 2 tries nor after 1 scenario). If it truly is a flop, then hopefully I have only wasted my own $50.

9 Days and Counting ...

Depends on the source of the eggs. As a general rule, at your elevation, you should get less than 25% hatch rate on shipped eggs, so anything over that on shipped is beating the odds. I have gotten 33% when eggs were well packaged and fresh and not damaged by the PO, and one time got 62.5% on Bresse eggs, which are said to hatch better than most after shipping. For eggs laid at your location, you should be closer to 75% hatch rate if you have a young, healthy flock. As the flock gets older the viability goes down - for some birds this is seen after the first full year of laying/breeding, for others not until the third or fourth year. The hens may continue to lay well past that time, but the eggs will hatch less frequently.

I would chart both 43 and 38 as your total to start since the last 5 were removed before you added the soda lime. I'm curious to know how long the soda lime remains useful before needing replacement.

 

[lgc1970]

I am adding soda lime everyday now, and am adding 3oz each day at Day 16 now. I think I should've starting adding it sooner than I did, so here is how I am going to do it next time. It goes in around midday, so I am able to see how much color change has occurred by night and early morning.

Soda lime schedule for approximately 36 eggs:
Day 6 - 2.5oz
Day 9 - 2.5oz
Day 11 - 2.5oz
Day 13 - 3oz
Day 15 - 3oz
Day 16 - 3oz

I think the following is what I will need to add for the remaining eggs:
Day 17 - 3oz
Day 18 - 3.5oz
Day 19 - 3.5oz
Day 20 - 3.5oz
Day 21 - 4oz
Day 22 - 4oz

 

[bumpershoot]

I will be getting eggs at the end of the month and I am DYING to know how this goes.

 

[Pozees]

Me too!

 

[lgc1970]

I am adding soda lime everyday now, and am increasing the amount each day. It is Day 18 now. I know I should've starting adding it sooner than I did, so here is how I am going to do Days 1 - 18 next time. The soda lime goes in around my Turn 2, so I am able to see how much color change has occurred by night and early morning.

Soda lime schedule for approximately 36 eggs:
Day 6 - 2.5oz (75g)
Day 9 - 2.5oz (75g)
Day 11 - 2.5oz (75g)
Day 13 - 3oz (90g)
Day 15 - 3oz (90g)
Day 16 - 3oz (90g) + 2.5oz (75g) (went back for Turn 3 and the bag was purple)
Day 17 - 5oz (150g)
Day 18 - 6oz (180g) (TODAY!)

This is taking more soda lime than I thought at my elevation ((EL8150), but if someone is at a lower elevation these amounts would be less; higher elevations more. By how much I am not certain. This would probably be related to the partial pressure.

I moved 27 eggs into the hatcher and I really think that I was not adding enough soda lime at the beginning. I am going to repeat this with the Day 6 addition and increasing the soda lime by 0.5-1oz for each day. My goal was to hatch out at least 50% of the eggs still incubating from Day 5, which was 43. Pozees brought it to my attention that if I hatch out better than 25% I probably have a win at my elevation. That would be 11. Still good, but I am not exactly feeling that would be a success for me.

I have been over candling to check progress, but I have a humidifier (room at 45%+) and heater (room at 80*) in the room so the eggs do not get cold or dry, and I only candle for a max of 20 seconds with my 1000 lumen flashlight candler (I can see clearly through almost any egg). When the fresh soda lime has been in the incubator for an hour or so the embryos are going to town! If I candle when I put in the soda lime after it has been spent, then the embryos are moving slowly and not very much.

I am going to increase the soda lime for the last 3-4 days, so here is my estimate.
Day 19 - 6.5oz (205g)
Day 20 - 7oz (210g)
Day 21 - 8oz (240g)
Day 22 - 4-8oz if needed

That will be just over 3lb for an incubator run.

I know that soda lime is somewhat unknown, but the uses of soda lime are similar to how I am using it in the incubator setup. Plus, I have never had any whiff of ammonia as reviews have stated I might, although the amounts I am using have been tiny.

So, Day 18 with 27 moved into the hatcher.
4 Days and Counting.

 

[bumpershoot]

IGC1970, thanks for the update! I am so thrilled to hear that the embryos are moving when the soda lime is scrubbing the CO2. I swear I am so excited about your hatch it feels like my own!

 

[Adelina]

What elevation are your eggs from, I'm going to try some local eggs, to see what the difference is.. Also have 12 eggs shipped from 2,400 ft 6 shipped wrapped in damp paper towel, 6 shipped regular..to see of that helps-