Have to find homes for my dogs

[hinkjc]

If used correctly, the shock collars are excellent training tools. We use them here and it generally only ever took 1-2 shocks for our labradors to learn that chickens zap. Our dogs are free run of our property with our chickens free range and we've never had an attack on our birds from our own dogs (altho I must also note that not all dogs are alike). Most hunting dogs are trained this way as well. I can't overemphasize "if used correctly". Please don't overuse the collar, as it will become useless and not work towards your goal. If you are unsure, find a local hunting group and ask them questions on proper training using this tool. Always start on the lowest setting and be prepared for that not to work and you will have to make adjustments.

I hope you will reconsider rehoming your dogs and train them to be a part of your family.

Jody

 

[PurpleChicken]

Quote:
Perfectly said. That's exactly the way to use a shock collar and they do work well.
If it works with a Lab is should work with ALMOST any dog. It worked great on our coon
hound until our Pitt/Heeler chewed it off her. ($150 chew toy

).

KEEP THE PUPPIES

 

[Cara]

I have to disagree with most of you. Having two puppies at the same time is a big mistake to begin with, let alone when they are that big. Obviously newchickowner cannot control them both, and even if the chicken problem is resolved, something else will come up. The commitment to work with them just isn't there. Recommending someone with no experience of shock collars uses one to train their dogs is insane. They are great tools when used correctly. However, they are also the quickest way to screw up a good dog if you don't know exactly what you are doing. Find them a good home with someone who will enjoy them and can put their natural instincts to good use, they can't help doing what nature tells them to.

As for the chickens, free ranging is always going to be risky. Even if the dogs don't hurt them, something else might, and the poor dogs will probably get the blame.

 

[newchickowner]

I appreciate all the advise thanks, the only dog getting out of her pen is the female and only because the donkey broke part of the fence so that the female dog has found that she can push it down to jump over. I've tried everything I can to fix it short of getting an electric fence, and I don't have the funds right now. I'm only inexperienced with shock collars because I've never had the need to use them before. This is a dog that has an urge to chase my chickens that's greater than obeying me, OFF THE LEASH that is. I am totally devoted to training them, I am an at home mommy to my children as well as to my pets. They sit, lay down, sit up, and do all sorts of tricks. This is my last chance to get her to obey regarding the chickens that is why I posted this thread. The dog is to blame because the chickens are closely watched and penned up every night, I and my BF have personally witnessed the dog attacking my birds. So far she isn't causing any harm except for pulling out their feathers while trying to catch them. But I don't want her to become blood thirsty for them before I can get a shock collar. Right now I have her tied to my barn using a 20' heavy duty cable. She chewed through every thing else and broke chains. Not trying to get the chickens, but just trying to get loose. I feel, knowing her and how sweet she is otherwise, that the shock collar will work wonderfully because she thinks that it's fun to chase them. If she learns that they will shock her then I think it will discourage her. As for the male dog, he's too lazy to jump the fence and only was involved in the chase the time my child accidentally left the gate open and was just following suit.

Again thanks very much for all the advise. I think a friend of mine has a shock collar I can borrow. Believe me, I will try it on myself first to those who are concerned I may abuse the animal.

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

I've read that with shock collars you have to do a lot of leash training...you just can't snap on the collar and use it. The dogs actually have to associate where the shock is coming from, otherwise they could become paranoid about it. Imagine just randomly getting shocked and not knowing where it came from. If you shock at the wrong moment, the dog may not process the punishment like a person would. They may not relate going after chickens with shock.

I'm not saying that it isn't a good tool, but just be sure to do your research first. I was looking into getting one for my dog, but realized it would be easier to do some training on the leash first. I've been lucky though...never had a problem with my dog going after the chickens.

 

[PurpleChicken]

Quote:
1-"Having 2 puppies is a mistake" I wouldn't recommend it but since she already
has them so your comment doesn't help.

2-"Obviously newchickowner cannot control them both" How do you know this?
I have my doubts but since she is asking for help she is taking some positive steps.

3-"The commitment to work with them just isn't there" Again, how do you know this?

4-"Recommending someone with no experience of shock collars uses one to train
their dogs is insane" I had no shock collar experience when I got mine. I had great
results, although I did read the manual and am an experienced trainer.

5-"Find them a good home with someone who will enjoy them and can put their
natural instincts to good use" Those dogs will most likely end up in a shelter
somewhere. Do you think it's easy to find homes for two large mixbreed dogs
in the heart of Texas? I truly hope she can find homes but I doubt she will.

It seems to me it is in the best interest of all parties if they work with the dogs
and keep them. The purpose of this thread is to help a member with a
difficult situation, not discourage or judge them.

 

[Frozen Feathers]

The only thing I can suggest is walking them. Not letting them walk you, but have them walk behind or beside you. I find walking my dog very helpful, not only does it tire her out but I make her mind and she has learned to look at me as her leader. When we first got her, we were slackers in her training, cute little puppy doing cute little puppy things. Then she was hit by a car running off (luckily she didn't even get a scratch on her) and we knew something had to be changed.

We started walking her everyday, making her mind, walk with us and wait for us to go in out of the house etc. We also do small training sessions everyday, come, sit, down, & stay, just the basics to keep her in check. Just an hour walk a day can do wonders on a dog. Even a half hour will help.

I hope you find something that works, they are beautiful puppies and you sound like you are very committed to finding a solution.

Maybe get Caesar Milan's book "Caesar's Way". I know people have mixed feelings about him, but his methods really do work, in my experience and maybe you could find something in his book that will work for you.

 

[Cara]

To answer your questions, Purplechicken:

If newchickowner cannot control the dogs off leash, she cannot control them. Well trained dogs don't listen when the situation suits them, whether indoors or on leash, they listen period.

As for her commitment to work with them, she said she prefers the chickens anyway and would rather keep them than the dogs.

Using a shock collar is a way of conditioning a dog to behave in a certain way. Using the collar just a second or two too late will condition the dog to fear something other than the behaviour that you are trying to eliminate. Speaking while shocking the dog will cause the dog to associate the pain with your voice, not the problem behaviour. Overuse of a shock collar will result in a fearful, anxious dog, or sometimes even aggression. They can be very useful tools for a trainer who knows what they are doing. They will cause more problems in the hands of someone who does not know precisely how and when to use them.

As for finding them a good home, the emphasis was on good home, not dumping them at the shelter. There are livestock guardian dog rescue groups who may be able to offer a foster for the dogs who can work with them so that they can fit into a new home better. I am not 'judging' newchickowner, I do not want to see the dogs suffer for the mistakes of their handler, that's all.

 

[newchickowner]

wow. I really didn't think I would get some of these reactions. I'm regretting even starting this thread. I had no idea that assumptions would be made about my training abilities when they aren't even known to strangers. I am truely thankful for those who were more understanding and willing to give the advise regarding the shock collars because that was the issue that needed to be addressed.

 

[Chickending]

Newchickenowner,
I am an experienced shock collar trainer, I have used it and have not used it, it depends on the dogs temperment that determines the best training route. Its generally used for very strong willed dogs, once that prey drive is triggered will not listen that is how my dog was. I have trained dogs that food was the best motivator, some not.

I have used it on myself when I first got it. It really doens't hurt them it gets their attention and that is what you are trying to accomplish, get the attention then correct the behavior. What happens with dogs is the prey drive kicks in and there is nothing that will stop them. This is a tool that really will get the attention of the dog, then you say "leave it" or whatever cue you decide to use.
My best advice when you use it is to make sure the correction takes place at the right time. Dogs live in the present, as I am sure you know that. If you don't correct that behavior within seconds of the unwanted behavior you will do more harm than good. Before you introduce the chickens to the dogs with the collar practice on something the dog really likes, a treat, a toy. Put the treat/toy out in front of the dog and when he goes for it, say "leave it" or whatever cue you decide to use. If they dont respond to the cue then shock, say "Leave it" and keep practicing the cue. They need to first realize the cue means stop, pay attention to mom. As you cannot always have the collar on the dog so best to learn a cue to teach them to pay attention.

I have a pit bull/boxer mix who behaves just the same off leash as he does on. It has taken alot of training but he is great with the chickens but it all comes down to who is the pack leader. You need to make sure those dogs understand who the leader is and when you speak they listen. What you are trying to accomplish with the shock collar is two things to associate the unwanted behavior with the shock but also a tool to get their attention to you. My dog knows the word "uh uh" is the cue to stop whatever he is doing and look to me. So no matter what he is doing, chasing a rabbit, squirrel, I say the word he listens and stops. He has a very high prey drive so I know about chasing things but it is possible and there is hope to teach the dogs to leave the chickens alone.
My dog goes in with the chickens with me, we do chores together and he walks around with the chickens with my supervision as again I never trust any dog with the chickens always supervised is the best advice. I have never used the shock collar yet in regards to the chickens. Its something I used for him the first few years of his life to learn behaviors I wanted him to learn,correct unwanted behaviors. Now I rarely need to use it because he knows who is the boss and its me, not him.
You have to on a daily basis show the dogs you are the pack leader not them. Be consistent is so important. They do not run the show, if you can do that and use the collar correctly it can work.

This is the best advice I can give you. Sorry this is long and wordy but I dont want you to be discouraged. I hope it works out for you. Any dog can be rehabilitated so there is always hope but it takes alot of hard work and consistency.