Heater or heat panel -10

[The Bougie Coop]

@The Bougie Coop

You have made the following assertion: "As soon as the temp drops below 50F, they start to show cold stress."

Rather than cite a list of documents (some of which directly contradict your assertion) that virtually no one will read it would be more useful if you could provide direct reference within those documents that unequivocally support what you say.

You have not done that and, as such, your response is not worth the paper it is written on (in this case no paper, no worth).

Oh, you read through all of those documents in the last 10 minutes to determine there are some results that are contradictory in a scientific study. I mean, if you know anything about scientific studies that does happen. But overall the findings support heat and show that there are physiological and hormonal changes in cold stressed birds.

Adults should be able to read and figure stuff out on their own. I am not spoon feeding anyone information, it’s all right there. If people don’t want to read it, that’s their problem, not mine. Lead a horse to water and all that.

I just knew you were going to dismiss anything I posted or had to say just by your replies in this thread (and your condescending “no paper, no worth” snark confirmed it for me) but you asked for the information and I provided it. It’s chasing you but you are too fast. Maybe it will help someone who is actually looking for knowledge.

 

[The Bougie Coop]

Ah yes, another heater/no heater debate. Turn the heat off in your house then. Will you survive, yes. You'll huddle up with others, wrap up with extra blankets, ect. I'll be insulating my coop as the days go by as it will also help during those long 90 degree and triple digit days. There is nothing wrong with temperature control in your coop. And don't start with "the coop may burn down using a heating device", so could your house......

And don’t forget that once the combs, wattles, and maybe a toe or two turn black and fall off from frostbite, it’s not a problem anymore!!

Can you even imagine saying that to a person about their extremities?

 

[Ted Brown]

You have not yet provided any information that supports your assertion.

You have provided a list of references that very few, if any, will bother to read and you have made an unsupported statement that you say supports you.

You have many opinions but no facts.

 

[Ted Brown]

And don’t forget that once the combs, wattles, and maybe a toe or two turn black and fall off from frostbite, it’s not a problem anymore!!

I have a fresh air coop (open front with hardware cloth only) in a winter climate that averages -15C/5F with occasional periods of -30C/-22F and lower.

I have had frostbite on combs because I allowed humidity to build by having water inside the coop. Removing the water and increasing ventilation resolved that issue. I also only keep cold tolerant breeds so no large floppy combs or wattles.

No toes turning black and falling off. Your comment is the first that I have read of that; six years on BYC every day. I will specifically search for evidence that this does happen; if I am successful I will provide links that support it as I am asking you to directly support your assertion which you have yet to do.

 

[Ted Brown]

This addresses treatment of frostbite and specifically references frostbitten toes. The article suggests additional factors that may contribute to the circumstance.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...to-know-about-injury-care-and-recovery.78168/

 

[NatJ]

No toes turning black and falling off. Your comment is the first that I have read of that; six years on BYC every day. I will specifically search for evidence that this does happen; if I am successful I will provide links that support it as I am asking you to directly support your assertion which you have yet to do.

I've seen a number of threads about frostbite, including toes or whole feet falling off.

Here is an article with photos of frostbitten feet at various stages, and eventually photos of the hen with no feet:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...to-know-about-injury-care-and-recovery.78168/
(There is also a thread about this one, but the article is tidier presentation of the same material.)

Edit: I see you found the same article I did, right about the same time

 

[Ted Brown]

@NatJ

I have many faults but am also willing to do proper research and retract erroneous statements. I also stick to things (mostly coop & run construction) that I know from first hand experience.

I also know that not everyone has those traits as has been wildly illustrated in this thread. For the most part I refrain from commenting but, in this case, I could not.

 

[NatJ]

Veterinarians boarded in Poultry Medicine state the same things I did above. Dr. Blayne Mosizek, DACPV specifically discusses this issue and asserts chickens need heat under 50F.

Can you cite a source for that? It does not seem to be any of the ones you provided.

https://modernpoultry.media/cold-te...-poultry-health-and-welfare/?mp=1761680868201

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8267593/

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-2615/15/12/1769

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10741227/

These ones all talk about some aspect of cold stress and adult hens. They appear to support the idea that cold stress does happen, and can have undesireable consequences.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10741227/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119444192

This one talks about a study of cold stress in young chicks. No-one in this thread is arguing about that. We all know that young chicks need a source of heat.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119444192

https://actavet.vfu.cz/76/8/17/https://actavet.vfu.cz/76/8/17/

This one is studying cold stress in broiler chickens, starting when they are quite young. It does not look particularly relevant to a discussion of adult chickens from non-broiler breeds.

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-2615/15/12/1769

This is a duplicate of one that was listed earlier. It doesn't say anything different the next time I look at it.

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/animal-science/articles/10.3389/fanim.2021.775311/full

This one talks about several kinds of stress. Talking about cold stress, it pretty much says:
--we know cold stress happens because of a study in rats*
--we know adult chickens can tolerate cold stress because of a study in chickens
--"However, neonatal chicks are susceptible to cold temperature and cannot survive the harsh condition until they develop mature organs for thermogenesis"
[There are some sources for that, but we all know that young chicks need a source of heat, so I didn't bother to look at them.]

*No, it didn't say "a study in rats." It gave the author and some other information about the study, and the study was listed in the sources. I went to look at it.
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/animal-science/articles/10.3389/fanim.2021.775311/full

https://extension.umn.edu/small-scale-poultry/caring-chickens-cold-weather

This basically says that cold stress does exist, and then it's got a list of the usual advice about how to care for chickens in cold weather (pretty much the same advice that is available on many places, including this site.)

Rather than cite a list of documents... that virtually no one will read...

I just looked at them all, and made a few notes on each one.
Of course anyone is welcome to go check for themselves, but this may help a little.

 

[Ted Brown]

@NatJ

I originally wrote "no one would read" but realized some would. You have just proved that point and have done so in a dispassionate but effective way.

Bravo, you get a gold star!!

 

[The Bougie Coop]

Can you cite a source for that? It does not seem to be any of the ones you provided.


These ones all talk about some aspect of cold stress and adult hens. They appear to support the idea that cold stress does happen, and can have undesireable consequences.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10741227/

This one talks about a study of cold stress in young chicks. No-one in this thread is arguing about that. We all know that young chicks need a source of heat.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119444192

This one is studying cold stress in broiler chickens, starting when they are quite young. It does not look particularly relevant to a discussion of adult chickens from non-broiler breeds.


This is a duplicate of one that was listed earlier. It doesn't say anything different the next time I look at it.


This one talks about several kinds of stress. Talking about cold stress, it pretty much says:
--we know cold stress happens because of a study in rats*
--we know adult chickens can tolerate cold stress because of a study in chickens
--"However, neonatal chicks are susceptible to cold temperature and cannot survive the harsh condition until they develop mature organs for thermogenesis"
[There are some sources for that, but we all know that young chicks need a source of heat, so I didn't bother to look at them.]

*No, it didn't say "a study in rats." It gave the author and some other information about the study, and the study was listed in the sources. I went to look at it.
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/animal-science/articles/10.3389/fanim.2021.775311/full

This basically says that cold stress does exist, and then it's got a list of the usual advice about how to care for chickens in cold weather (pretty much the same advice that is available on many places, including this site.)


I just looked at them all, and made a few notes on each one.
Of course anyone is welcome to go check for themselves, but this may help a little.

I posted studies that discuss cold stress in birds because a lot of people don’t feel cold stress is an issue, but I think people are stuck on the 50F temp. Here is Dr. Mozisek discussing it: