Helmstead to the Goat Help Desk....

[ametauss]

I have two new does and a little buck about 4mths old now....

This guy I got them from had them only on pasture and they were skin and bones and he worn they were both bred... the one doe was the mother to the little buck and she was in worse shape than the other one...

I've had them for about a month now and Dally seems to have put on some weight, the little buck seems to have grown but his momma looks skinny still and this weekend all three developed loose bowels.... When I got them I wormed them and gave them a shot of BoSe....

Sally the little momma doesn't seem to be in any distress or I'd have hauled her off to the Vet... and all are eating (goat food and hay) and some leaves but not on pasture grass.... I keep them penned up in the barn area since I don't know if they'll wander off...

I also noticed that either the GP or the goats managed to open the stall door to the food storage and most of the chicken scratch was gone and a large amount of goat food along with a torn open 50 lb bag of DE.... which is now all over the stall floor... grrrr

Should I give them a Cal supplement?? They have a mineral block which they love to pick at...

 

[Laurieks]

How much chicken scratch??? they can die from bloat if they eat too much grain all at once. The DE might actually help, I don't know.
I'd get a vet over asap if they had more than a pound each, based on what you say about their past.

Meanwhile, give some Simethicone (anti gas stuff, I forgot the name on mine-from Walmart) to help keep them from bloating. And yogurt (real yogurt like Pavel's or nancy's-not that sugary stuff the chain stores sell).
Therabloat is the stuff people use for bloat; a vet told me it's basically Simethicone.

I had my first ever loss to bloat last Summer, of course my favorite goat ever

, after she got in the grain bin while I was tending to the grumpy one with the stuck kid & retained placenta. I had never had bloat here before, and couldn't find any Therabloat at first, had I known then about simethicone maybe she would have made it. She was treated and was looking better, but was dead the next morning

Good luck!

 

[helmstead]

They are scouring from the feed room break in. This could end badly...

If they were here, they'd get C/D antitoxin, baking soda to prevent acidosis from the corn, a bloat treatment or oil, and be pulled from all feed except grass hay for 24 hrs.

DO NOT try to stop the scouring! This is helping clear the extras out of their systems.

Also watch for signs of founder.

After this episode is over we can talk about conditioning them

 

[cassie]

Assuming your does survive the grain overload, you might have them checked for Johnes. If they are not gaining weight even though they are on good feed it is something to consider.

 

[ametauss]

DH is taking the baby to the Vet as he was floundering.... He was a bit skittish when we got him and has stayed a little standoffish but he actually let DH walk up to him where he was laying in the sun and open his mouth to see his tounge which was pale....

I'm worried about lil dude.... His breathing was fine just didn't want to get up... DH said his little tummy was a bit hard....

Lock is going up on the door so no more break-ins.... I can't stand this type of pain for my babies....

 

[helmstead]

I would do all of the above which I recommended and FAST...hopefully the vet knows his goats. Good luck!

 

[cassie]

Hopefully you will not need this information again. If you catch goats in the grain, lock them up so they do not have access to water for a few hours and fill them up on dry hay. The object is to dilute the grain. Excess grain kills because the fermentation in the rumen produces an excess of lactic acid, which kills the rumen bacteria and in turn kills the goat. Without water this deadly reaction cannot occur. The culprit then needs a shot of entero antitoxin (clostridium perfingens) and some penicillin. As for bloat, the best treatment I have found, and I have tried them all, is plain old GasX. If the goats get into the grain and then fill up on water, it's a whole different ball game do not restict the water. The goats then need professional medical attention. Grain overload is deadly. All goats should be kept current on their entero shots. Clostridium perfingens toxoid, and goat owners should keep clostridium perfingens antitoxin and GasX on hand for emergencies. I am very sorry.

 

[helmstead]

Quote:
I think I've argued this one before, with Cassie, so I won't argue it again other that to say IMHO with holding water at ANY time, other than choke, is a terrible idea.

I've dealt with entero only a couple of times, knock on wood...and never withheld water...and have turned it around each time with prudent care. I cannot imagine withholding water would do any more than dehydrate an already stressed goat.

 

[ametauss]

UPDATE: Well the VET said he didn't have bloat... not sure I agree he said he had Pneumonia and gave him some antiboitics. Said we could pay $800 to have him keep him and give him IV fluids and more antiboitics or take him home and give him electrolites with a syringe but he didn't think he'd make it either way since he was already cold and weak....

He lasted for 4 hrs....

We gave him 1/2 a pint of electrolites and he did perk up but you could hear the fluid in his lungs as he was laboring to breath... we wrapped him in a blanket, brought him inside with a heater on him and a heating pad underneath him and his back legs never got warmer... poor little dude...

We brought the momma in and gave her a shot of anitboitics and gave her some electrolites and provided her with some water and hay... She's eating the hay but not drinking... Her breathing is fine she did cough a bit but more like to clear her throat... Vet said I shouldn't give anything else to her.... Her belly isn't getting bloated but I'm still a bit worried....

The other doe seems fine out in the barn but still has a bit of a loose stool....

We don't have a large animal Vet in the area and my Vet does have goats/chickens/etc... so I do have faith in him....

 

[helmstead]

I'm so sorry.

I really suspect Enterotoxemia, not Pneumonia. There is only one form of pneumonia that presents with a below normal temp, Interstitial Pneumonia...and most vets believe the fever occurs before the goat is found at deaths door (this one is a fast killer with few, barely perceptable symptoms before they crash).

Entero causes a low body temp, and often they sound gurgly.

I hope your other goaties pull through...