*****Help!! **** 4-H project, but we don't know what breed we have?

[spikennipper]

That's a very clean set up you've got there and beautiful birds, they look like cross Seramas to me, they don't need dirt to scratch around in, they like it but it is not essential for their health, giving them a tray of sand with perhaps a bit of DE mixed in should be fine for a dust bath, I have my birds in a run with pebbles which is far more hygienic than dirt and easier to hose down, I also have lattice panelling with no wire, provided the birds are locked up securely overnight I see no problem in this.

 

[High Roost Ranch]

Regarding the seramas... He very well could be all serama, just the product of very poor breeding. As I already said with the hen, from the photo you can't really tell her quality. She may be OEGB, OEGB X Serama, or Serama. On the cockerel, he is far too tall and string bean-ish, the breed calls for a V-shape which he has the making of but he lacks over all body substance making him look like he could fit into a glass. If you go to my profile, on the main page, top left photo, is a picture of one of my wheaten Malaysian Seramas that carries substantial body substance. He has a few faults but most everything you want a serama to be is there. Compare him to your boy, and you'll see the difference.

Can you post a photo of your serama hen standing by herself? Side profile preferably as that tells a lot.

And I know you didn't solicit environment help. I like your setup with the exception of the larger rock base. That could cause them to get sore on their feet and legs if that's the only footing they have to walk on. They should have someplace level to travel on, small pea gravel is best if you want to use rock base. They'll want a dirt area to sun bathe and dust bathe in. Perhaps a 2 inch diameter perch would make them happy too.

But back to your original subject. Enjoy your birds. They are not "good" quality as far as show or breeder birds are concerned, but if they make your daughter happy, and you are aware of their quality and still love them, that's what counts.

 

[TheRanch]

High Roost did an excellent job of explaining the process and I just thought I'd add this pic of our D'anvers - I am not suggesting he is show quality (he's just a pet and I don't show D'anvers) but to show the muffs and beard that are required for this breed. Congrats on getting into 4-H - I loved it when I was a kid - got to do alot of traveling when I was in lol!! I wish you both lots of luck, fun and growth in your project(s)!!

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
Thank you.

Simply put, each recognized breed has their approved or accepted color varieties for either the ABA or APA. AOV is any color that is NOT one of those recognized ABA or APA color varieties. AOV covers any and all non recognized colors and stands for Any Other Variety.

I'm always glad to help where I can. We were all beginners at one time or another, and seeing kids interested in poultry is the future of our hobby!

Just to clarify, a variety may be recognised, but not for a specific breed, in which case AOV would be designated in entering that bird.

 

[destiny_56085]

4-H rules also say for a breeding pen that you must have a breed/color in the APA standard of perfection too. Open class shows you can do AOV. 4-H no. You can do either a breeding pen, egg production, or a market pen. Egg production and market pens are based on the performance of the birds and you can have crosses (black stars, comets, cornish crosses, etc). For a breeding pen you need a trio...1 cockerel and 2 pullets of the same breed and color variety. Only a cloverbud can take an individual bird. You can also place a single bird in the 'show and hobby' category but it won't earn you much more than a blue ribbon locally. These have to be purebred, in condition, and the 4-H er must have a little knowledge about the breed they plan on showing. Its not like open class showing where you coop your birds in and get outta there. In 4-H you have to take you birds out and the judge evaluates them with the kids. Its meant to be a learning experience. Some states allow older birds. Here in MN they only allow birds hatched after January 1st of the current year. I was in 4-H for 12 years, my mom was the secretary for the county extension office for over 20 years, and I am currently a 4-H district leader.

 

[High Roost Ranch]

Quote:
Glad you mentioned this. Down here in FL, they do things a little differently with poultry. Any age bird can be shown, very seldom do you see a same year hatch shown in competition. I believe this is primarily because FL 4-H follows more to ABA/APA rules and not so much in the meat/egg market aspect. Also, what's different about FL 4-H from MN 4-H (been researching all this because that is our goal is to jump right in when we get to MN, my daughter is 9, just finished her 4th yr as a 4-Her), is FL's State Fair comes before many of the county fairs. It's not a culmination or achievement based privilege to be able to show State here. I grew up with MN rules, it was a shock for me to have the state level not viewed as a finale, a privilege to be able to attend. Our state fair happened back in February, followed by the county fair overlapping the end date of the state fair were we had to coop out early for the county fair.

It seems from state to state, 4-H rules for poultry differ. It's always been my desire to see a universal nationwide governing guideline that all states follow, and not nilly willy as is evidence. And talking to others around the country, some states or counties don't even require the bird to be pure bred at all. FL has no breed pen, or trio set up. Kids are allowed 3 birds at the county level, in any combination. In the youth state show, any amount of birds can be shown, and a child doesn't even have to do a record book or participate in the other activites, they can just come in, coop in, skip showmanship (frowned upon but not disallowed altogether) and then coop out with their awards and premiums. County level here in FL, especially in my county, was a lot more intensive than the state fair. Backwards from my perception and I'm sure most everyone else as well.

That's why I suggested that Leigh Ann check with their poultry committee to see just how the birds are judged. Each is different. Too bad we (meaning everyone involved in 4-H nationwide) can't get on the same page so there is universal knowledge to be shared and gained by all. I suppose that's something for the national level power-heads to deal with, not us lowly everyday poultry hobbyists.

 

[High Roost Ranch]

Oops, double post. Don't know how that happened!

 

[High Roost Ranch]

Quote:
Thank you.

Simply put, each recognized breed has their approved or accepted color varieties for either the ABA or APA. AOV is any color that is NOT one of those recognized ABA or APA color varieties. AOV covers any and all non recognized colors and stands for Any Other Variety.

I'm always glad to help where I can. We were all beginners at one time or another, and seeing kids interested in poultry is the future of our hobby!

Just to clarify, a variety may be recognised, but not for a specific breed, in which case AOV would be designated in entering that bird.

True, I thought I hinted to that??? For example, Araucana recognized colors differ in ABA to APA, some colors that are accepted in one association aren't recognized in another, buff being one of them I think. Rosecombs are another example, with the ABA recognizing many more varieties than the APA does. Is this what you meant? It's what I meant.

 

[destiny_56085]

Thank you High Roost! Up here the kids have to do records. MN is one of the biggest poultry production states. They highly emphasize the learning aspect. I can't quite understand why they would have county fairs after the state. What exactly is the purpose? Its supposed to be the absolute best of birds at state level and the kids have to earn their way there. The knowledge bowl competitions are fierce here. My brother was on the poultry bowl team that won Nationals in Louisville about 5-6 years ago. These same kids went on to win the showmanship contest at state that year.

Just a note for our BCPPA show here in MN this fall....Juniors are judged along with open class birds for high honors overall. To get on champ row, the junior MUST have competed in showmanship though. I believe it was last year that a Junior took reserve overall champion of our show with a black east Indies.

This was out of about 1,800 birds.

 

[High Roost Ranch]

Quote:
And that's the way it should be. We're big on the showmanship, I believe it's very important. I've got both the pigeon show and the poultry show on my list this fall as well as the MN Open Poultry show at the State Fair. I can't wait to get there.

I'm excited to jump in and join in the fun and activities! Will respond to the PM you sent later this evening. Gotta run out and do evening chores now, then get my birds for tomorrow's swap set up. It's hotter than the dickens outside at 98 degrees right now, watering 4 times a day... wee, what fun!