HELP! Bumblefoot on hen!

[welasharon]

Oh...and NEVER use the Tri-cide Neo in combination with Epsom Salts. The reason you have to use distilled water for the Tri-cide is that any salts, magnesium or calcium in the water, and they will bind to the antibacterial drug in the Neo and renders the soak useless. So stay way from the Epsom Salts while using the Tri-cide. 

Okay so I am copy and pasting all your info. Best source ever! I did not know that about the salts and glad you said so....I would have screwed up there.THanks!

 

[amenfarm]

Lincomycin I've never heard of, I did google it, but my vet did give me baytril tablets when I asked--the vet does not treat birds. Can I use that instead? I've read of people using it--and how do I use it in tablet form?
Where do you get lincomycin?
I found that the tricidi-neo solution worked best when I wiped the feet clean first, but did not soak the the affect foot in water--it seemed the solution soaked in better. Reading on the tricide-neo gave me a lot of info I found helpful. I did start with 6 weeks of pen shots and 2 weeks of E salt soak then 3 weeks worth of T.N. soaks, I don't know enough about chicken anatomy to know how much to remove, last time my husband cut the scab off only, it bleed lightly--do that daily? and is there a sling or something I can rig to hold the bird to treat? I work days and my DH works nights-- so I need someone/something to hold Penelope for me.

 

[TwoCrows]

Lincomycin I've never heard of, I did google it, but my vet did give me baytril tablets when I asked--the vet does not treat birds. Can I use that instead? I've read of people using it--and how do I use it in tablet form?
Where do you get lincomycin?
I found that the tricidi-neo solution worked best when I wiped the feet clean first, but did not soak the the affect foot in water--it seemed the solution soaked in better. Reading on the tricide-neo gave me a lot of info I found helpful. I did start with 6 weeks of pen shots and 2 weeks of E salt soak then 3 weeks worth of T.N. soaks, I don't know enough about chicken anatomy to know how much to remove, last time my husband cut the scab off only, it bleed lightly--do that daily? and is there a sling or something I can rig to hold the bird to treat? I work days and my DH works nights-- so I need someone/something to hold Penelope for me.

Lincomycin comes in a liquid form for injections. (You will need a syringe and a needle to get it out of the bottle). But in this case, it works well on bumblefoot infections as it kills bacteria on contact. So by irrigating the wound with it, it gets into every tissue of the pad and kills the nasties in there.

Baytril is a very powerful antibiotic. Unless your bird is really suffering with this, I wouldn't use Baytril on a simple foot infection. No antibiotic is going to work in place of simple surgeries. Removing the scab is not enough. You will need to dig, squeeze and work the pus out of her foot. You can do this by yourself. Get a large towel and stand the bird in front of you. put one end of the towel around her and keep wrapping her up, around her breast, around and around until she is fairly tightly wrapped. Flip her over in your lap. Cover her face with the towel. I do all my work like this all alone. The bird is securely in the towel and there is limited fussing by the bird.

If all you are getting is blood, then there is no need to do surgeries at that point and you need to let the would heal. If there is still pus, just pick, dig and squeeze til you can get as much as you can out. That is why I like the Lincomycin because it IS difficult to get all the liquid pus out and this antibacterial works in places I can not get too.

Here is a link to where you can get some Lincomycin. I found some cheaper at my local feed store for $35.00. Not cheap. But this stuff works and you are only going to be using 5cc's of it each time you do the surgeries, if you just can not get this bumblefoot under control, this stuff might just do the trick.

http://www.firststatevetsupply.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=230

Good luck!

 

[amenfarm]

I treated with the pencillin and tricide-neo last time--just worried that it could be resistant now. The pad is swollen to 2/3x it's normal size-same as before the previous treatment- and the scab covers almost the entire pad. I'll try tomorrow to see it I can do the towel hold, thanks for that. So, when we remove the scab, what should it look like underneath?

 

[TwoCrows]

How are you administering the Penicillin? Penicillin does not work by applying it directly to a wound. It must be worked thru the body either by the intestinal tract or by IM injection. Does not kill on contact.

Can you upload some pics of the pad? If the pad is really red and swollen, like 3 times it's size, then you might want to start her on Baytril. I didn't know it was that bad. Use the tablets and not the injectable kind as Baytril injections are hard on breast tissue, especially when given for more than 2 weeks.

When you remove the scab, does pus come right up to the surface? Does the tissue looked laced with specks of infection? Gently remove the scab and work slowly with tiny pic. I like the dental pics and a small sharp scapel to do most of the work. The more delicate you are at first, the less blood flows, which when it starts bleeding, it is hard to see what you are doing. Keep irrigating the pad with salt water so you can see what you are doing. (use a syringe and squirt it deep into the wound). You want to remove any tissue that is not red. Like flesh should look like. Nice and pinkish red. Generally the infection makes a hole for you to dig around in. You shouldn't have to dig thru healthy tissue to get to infection. The bacteria will have eaten away at the good flesh and there is a giant hole in the pad. This hole is where you want to dig thru. It needs to be cleaned very deeply. Don't be afraid to dig deep. Gently follow the hole down as far as it has gotten. When you have cleaned out all the tissue in this hole, pack it with Neosporin and use a piece of gauze over the wound, and firmly but lightly wrap with vet wrap. Check the toes a few minutes later to make sure they are warm and not cold. If they are cold, the wrap is too tight.

Normally with foot infections, there is little blood at the surface of the wound. You shouldn't be getting a ton of blood with a huge infection. See if you can upload a pic of the pad.

 

[amenfarm]

long lasting injected pencillin. I'll take a picture before and after the surgery--won't be until tomorrow. Looking for the lincomycin to buy locally.I have the vetercyn until I can get the other. Thanks OP for letting me ask questions--hopefully your learning along with me . Last time there was no oozing just soild yellow colored flesh, no holes--.

 

[amenfarm]

Manufacturers Number: PF3449
Brand: Pfizer

Type: Liquamycin-LA 200
Package Size: 100 mL
Application: Treatment of Gram-Positve and Gram-Negative Bacterial Diseases
would this work? the co op is checking to see how much and if they can get the lincomycin

 

[amenfarm]

OK, co op is ordering lincomyci less than 35.00 -- be here wed/Thurs. the label says injectable--but you want me to irrigate with it right?

 

[TwoCrows]

Liqumycin is Oxytetracycline. I have used that on one of my hens with bumblefoot in the past. If I recall correctly, it worked well. It is not the first recommended antibiotic for a staph infection, which is what bumblefoot is, but it is on the list to work with. Staph infections can be knocked out with Oxytetracycline.

Now, once you start with these things, DO NOT stop with it IF it appears to be working! Even if the container says to stop after 10 days, continue on!! That is how bacteria become resistant and the infection gets more aggressive. Believe me, I have stopped with meds for bumblefoot and they become 10 times worse than they were to begin with. I have a hen over here that has MS along with a bumblefoot injury that has been on antibiotics for 3 straight months, on and off for 5 months! It won't kill them. UNLESS your hen starts in with a sour crop, then you will need to continue with these meds for one week PASSED the point that you see no more infection. If you get NO results within 7 days of using this stuff, then it is time to do another route. The best thing you can do is start taking pics of the pad and foot once a week so you can see if there is improvement. Sometimes these things are slow to react and looking at the pad every day and you will think..."darn, nothing is happening!" But it is if you look at feet pics once a week.

If you live in an area with really hard water, it is best to use either RO water or Distilled. Again, Tetracyclines tend to react with salt, magnesium and calcium in water and make the meds half as powerful. My water can be chiseled out of the faucet, LOL, so when ever I use Baytril or Tetracyclines, I have to use pure water.

Every day you will still need to open up the bandages, if there is pus, you will need to drain it, apply some sort of ointment and rebandage. Keep the bandages on until the scab falls off for several months, which ever comes first!! You don't want to get really far with this wound, have it nearly healed and because you didn't bandage it, it went right back to being infected. I have probably used over 20 miles of vet wrap with bumblefeet! LOL...LOL

It will also help the hen to add probiotics to the water or feed everyday for crop health during the med usage and continue with the probiotics for a few weeks after the meds as well.

Keep me posted! And good luck!

 

[TwoCrows]

OK, co op is ordering lincomyci less than 35.00 -- be here wed/Thurs. the label says injectable--but you want me to irrigate with it right?

Irrigate the wound with it. About 5cc's each day, shooting it down deep into the wound. If you know how to give IM injections, it might not hurt to inject her with these as well!