HELP!!! Ducklings having issues

[MeTxLady]

We have week old mallard ducklings. Up until yesterday evening we have been feeding rice bran and hen scratch. Mainly the rice bran with a little hen scratch. Yesterday I changed food to Purina Start & Grow Medicated (http://purinamills.com/chicken-feed/products/start-grow-amp-0125/). I have read that it's ok for the ducklings to have medicated as long as it's Amprolium. I also purchased 2 galvanized feeders and started using one for the food and one for the water so they could not get into the bowls of water I had been using. This evening I noticed them laying bundled more than they had been. I watched them eat and drink and noticed how one of them was sitting on it's legs instead of standing. Then a few hours later noticed them all seeming to have a little trouble walking or not wanting to walk as much. When I reached down and tried moving them from their little bundle they didn't want to move and usually they would jump up and move away from my hand. I just started using Durvet Vitamins & Electrolytes in their water an hour or so ago which has niacin (http://www.durvet.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=98:vitamins-and-electrolytes-concentrate&Itemid=66). I mixed 1 teaspoon with 1 gallon of water. Then after reading some post on here I added another 1/2 teaspoon of water as I read if it's a niacin problem it would not hurt to add more of this.
I've also noticed their poop has been really wet and like waterery on the edges..but now (this evening) it's more solid and with a little white - kinda like chicken poop. Maybe what I was feeding wasn't doing the job and caused the leg probs but now I'm getting on the right track but hasn't had time to work yet??? I have them in my garden tub and I clean it frequently. I did notice them eating some of their poop before - but not much. I got a cage for them today so I can lift it up. I changed their water back to a small bowl (about 1.5 inches water level) thinking maybe the galvanized was a problem.
OK, I just edited this: I just checked on them and they are now kind of panting...breathing heavy and fast with opening beaks...OMG I don't know what to do? I haven 't let them swim since yesterday - gonna go try that. I have them in the bathroom with door shut and have a space (electric heater going) at 85 degrees
Just trying to give as many details as possible...
Any advice is appreciated!!! I'm already very attached to them.

 

[Amiga]

You are correct - the rice bran and hen scratch were not high enough in nutrition. Ducklings grow rapidly, and need plenty of vitamins, minerals, protein, all the building blocks.

Their nervous systems have started to suffer from a lack of nutrition. Now that you are correcting it, it is going to take a week or so for them to catch up.

In addition to the chick starter, I would get brewer's yeast (not baking yeast, not winemaking yeast), a food-grade supplement. Call around, you may find it at a GNC-type store, or even at a big box grocery store pharmacy department, or a drug store.

People on the forum who use it often add a tablespoon brewer's yeast per cup of food.

The Durvet does have some B vitamins, but I am not sure that the regular dose with contain enough B vitamins to get them caught up, and you don't want to add too many vitamins, because some of them can be toxic at higher doses.

Please read the Sticky on Raising Ducklings (there is a link in blue letters near the top of the Duck Forum index).

 

[MeTxLady]

Thanks for replying! I have read a lot in the past few days and know I started all wrong. I feel horrible about that. I have read about adding brewer's yeast but I thought that served the same purpose of adding niacin. Niacin is in the Durvet that I've added to the water. Not sure if I need to add both? I used the Durvet because many on here suggested that to other members who suspected a niacin deficiency. I'm pretty sure that's the problem (or main problem anyway). Wondering if I should mix a stronger batch of the Durvet and/or get the yeast.

 

[Amiga]

Storey's Guide to Raising Ducks recommends 100 to 150 mg niacin per gallon of water.

How much niacin per gallon are you getting with the Durvet? If you are getting less than 150 mg of niacin per gallon, you are not offering them the optimal recommended amount of niacin, and based on the rough nutritional start, I would want to bring them back up as quickly as it is safe to do.

So if there is less than 150 mg per gallon in the Durvet dosage, it would not be good to increase the amount of Durvet per gallon. I say this because if you increase the Durvet to get more niacin, you are increasing the concentration of other vitamins as well, and some can be toxic at high dosages. I am not a vet, but this would be my concern.

And if you get brewer's yeast, or even plain (not no-flush, not timed-release, just plain) niacin, you can bring up the B vitamins - or just niacin - more closely to Storey's recommendation.

I would use the Durvet probably twice a week for the next month, and keep the additional B vitamins / niacin for another 8 or 10 weeks.

 

[MeTxLady]

Ok so the Durvet contains 10,000 Mg per 4 oz. The bag I have is a 4 oz. bag and the man at the feed store told me I should use 1/4 level Tbsp. per gallon. The lady helping asked "do you mean 1/4 teaspoon?" and he said no. 1/4 level Tablespoon. Well, there is no 1/4 tablespoon measuring spoon that I know of so I used 1 teaspoon which is pretty close since there are 3 teaspoons to 1 tablespoon. I read on here of others using the 1 teaspoon to 1 gallon water mixture. Thinking I should go tomorrow and get regular niacin or brewer's yeast from the vitamin store along with vit. B and use that. They didn't have niacin alone at the feed store.

 

[MeTxLady]

Oh wait, so if I use regular niacin or brewer's yeast it will increase the b vitamin also? Or do I need to get b vitamin? Sorry for all the questions. I want to make sure I do this correctly this time.

 

[Amiga]

Please do ask questions.

Storey's Guide specifically recommends plain niacin (I emphasize plain, because so many places only carry no-flush or timed release, and the general understanding is that is not the same as plain niacin - and I looked it up, the plain niacin is nicotinic acid, and the others are something different).

Based on the experiences of a number of Duck Forum members, there is also an opinion that not just niacin, but the range of B vitamins are helpful with nervous system development and proper development overall. So, brewer's yeast and B complex products contain not only niacin, but other B vitamins. I have been leaning toward those, since I have read here that thiamine is also important for duckling development, and that medicated chick starter has amprolium in it - amprolium, according to medical web sites, is a thiamine uptake inhibitor. I don't think that sounds good for the nutrition of ducklings.

Regarding what you were told for the Durvet. The vitamin mix I use is one quarter teaspoon powder per gallon of water. But it's not Durvet. Can you call the Durvet company or look online to verify the proper amount to mix?

 

[MeTxLady]

Hi and I did more research on here about how to mix the Durvet and most on here are saying 1/4 teaspoon. I dumped out the gallon I had made and redid it with 1/4 teaspoon per gallon. I let them swim a little last night- I have a glass casserole dish I filled with water and they loved it. I just wanted to make sure they were nice and clean and nostrils were not packed and I know they LOVE water and it would be good for their spirits if nothing else. I did notice last night they all seemed to be having leg issues and not standing long and one even having to kind of scoot with his feet. They may also have to get used to how the wire feels under their feet instead of the bathtub. I notice today they seem a little more normal. Still sitting some while drinking and eating but they are moving around more and seem to be "happier". Ok, my plan now it to find some of the kind of niacin you recommend and brewer's yeast. I am also wondering if it would be beneficial for them if I take them outside today. I put them in a 2' x 2' cage yesterday and have it sitting up off the tub bottom in my garden tub so their waste can fall thru. I live in Texas and it's nice and sunny out today but is also windy. Temp now is 77 but should warm up to 82 before I will be able to even take them out. Do you think that's warm enough for them - they are just over a week old now. Was thinking if I can find a place with part shade and part sun to sit the cage on the grass then they may can also get some nutrition from eating some greens (grass) and also some actual sunlight might do them some good. I read somewhere not to let them get in cold drafts but with it this warm here not sure that is an issue. Another thing I need to know is how long to keep them in the house? Again, I'm in Texas where days now are general in the 80s and some 90s and lows at night in high 60s to 70s. We have a large chicken house we just build and were thinking of putting them in there in their little cage with a light over it at night. Not sure they need the light during the day. The chicken house is 8x6 and only has 5 chickens. Two hens sitting now, two roosters and another hen. The ones not sitting are all about outside the yard during the day. Anyway, thought it might do them some good to be in their normal environment (outside) but protected. Do you have any advice on that? and I would not do that until I feel they are well and all but just wondering when to start thinking about moving them outdoors. We plan to turn them loose on our pond once they are ready and not sure when that is either.
I am leaving for a job and will check back in a couple of hours of so, hope you and/or other can give advice on whether to take them out when I get back. I would of course, be sitting there right beside them to make sure nothing gets to them or anything like that.

 

[Amiga]

Wait. Wire under their feet? If the bottom of the brooder is wire, I would cover it with old towels - that's really rough on their feet, bare wire.

It has been a long, full, day I am just catching up to the forum -

Have you read this Raising Ducklings Sticky? https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/750869/raising-and-caring-for-ducklings#post_10611711

The general guideline is 90F the first week, dropping 5 degrees per week. At one week, they need to be around 85F. They also need to not be too hot. A thermometer is a very useful thing - I would measure the temperature in the coop before putting them in there. If it is 80s and 90s during the day outdoors, it could be much warmer than that in the coop, and that would be bad for the ducklings.

 

[MeTxLady]

Hi! Been a while since I posted. Yes, I bought a rabbit cage to put them in so their mess would not accumulate on the floor of the tub while I'm gone to work and to keep them from sometimes eating their poop. It gets so messy and I figured it was better for them to have living conditions more sanitary. I usually put a shirt or pillow case in there at night for them to sleep on which is nasty and damp/wet by morning. They seem to be doing fine with that and I just wash out the tub (underneath them) several times a day when I'm home to keep it from getting too stinky. So is that a bad idea?
Sometimes I let them swim and do keep something for them to climb up on. They absolutely love it and I have read they don't have oils on their feathers/down but the water beads off of them for the most part as if they do. I do know their mom took them into the water before we got them so maybe they got oils faster since they have been in the water more? From what I can tell they are perfectly healthy. They eat, drink, poop (a lot), sleep, swim and I have seen no issues since last posting. No leg issues anymore...and not even sure now that they actually had leg issues but at the least nothing bad has happened since giving the niacin in the water. I think I was a little paranoid but better to be safe than sorry.
I have kept it 90 degrees first week and now 85. They will be 2 weeks old either today or tomorrow and I'll move temp to 80. And yes, thanks for the link, I did read it. I don't plan to put them in the coop until next Thursday - week from today. We have several windows in there - with hardware cloth over them for ventilation and air flow. It's usually not real hot in there but I will put a thermometer in there this weekend and watch to see how hot it gets. I would like to allow them to go out in the yard and feed/play but we don't yet have a fenced area around the chicken coop to protect them. We have an automatic door that opens when it gets daylight and closes at dark so the chickens can free range during the day or go back in to get food/water. I have a small coop that we set up inside the large coop to keep the ducklings in.