Help help help! Knowledge needed.

[HotLips]

I have a small group of Cornish Cross birds that are due to get processed shortly. (Picture is old) They have been out of the brooder and outdoors for 3 weeks. I do 4 weeks in the brooder then 4 weeks outside.
I found one male dead 2 days ago. We assumed a heart attack due to no obvious reason for death and the breed is known for heart problems/heart attacks. Later that night I found a small girl with her feet out front and not getting up when I went out to move the tractor. She had been standing but not running over to eat in the mornings like the rest for a few days. She was eating and drinking though. We thought she was being smart and avoiding the crowd at the feeder. Yesterday morning she is dead and I saw another small girl not moving around looking much like the other. The last couple of nights have been colder (frost temps) but...What comes to mind is Marek's. What do you think? I've not seen this in meat chickens before and it concerns me. I have to go out of town next week and so our processing date has been pushed back a week. Wondering if I'll have any chickens left to process. More importantly, will they be safe to eat?

The second girl is still alive but not able to get around well. She is currently in the shed in a crate and has been eating and drinking well since she can get to the food and water there. I've been racking my brain trying to figure out what could be going on. I did change meatbird feed with this group. Kalmbach NON-GMO meatbird feed. Could it be a deficiency of some kind? I gave her Poultry cell and selenium today, food, food mixed with vitamin water, raw egg. She has eaten most of what I gave her. The rest of the meatbirds are doing ok tonight.

I need vet advice if at all possible please, or at least need to hear from someone knowledgable and not guessing. Thanks!

 

[BigBlueHen53]

How old are these birds?

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Sorry, I did the math, 7 weeks.

 

[FunClucks]

Have they had unrestricted access to high protein, meat bird feed? If they do, they may grow so large they start to pass before 8 weeks. I keep mine in a covered run with about 4 sqft per bird, and switch from meat bird (23-24% protein) to 20% all flock feed after about 4 weeks to slow their growth slightly, feeding during daylight hrs (12 hrs) daily. Feeding 12 hrs daily 23-24% meat bird feed until processing had them putting on too much weight by the time I processed them between 7-9 weeks. I wouldn't go past about 7 weeks with them if you can help it if you're feeding that way. I started processing at 5-6 weeks, and 6 weeks for mine when feeding meatbird 12 hrs a day was just right.

Losing a couple is not uncommon in a flock of 25 or so. I'd say just process them as soon as possible. Once their legs give out, they won't be getting better. Put them near food and water in a crate, keep them calm, and process asap. Doesn't sound like Merek's to me. Not to be unfeeling, but these are meat birds, not pets. If they start to have issues and are close to processing time, I wouldn't be trying to treat them, I'd be processing them as soon as possible. Making notes for what to do different when raising them next time is often about the best you can do.

 

[HotLips]

I wasn't asking to diagnose and treat but was wanting to diagnose so I might know if they were safe to eat. I did find that if a bird has Merek's they are safe to eat and if laying their eggs are safe to eat or hatch. If you don't know what's a wrong with your birds you can't even attempt tp prevent it in the future if that's possible.
Yesterday my son took them to be processed. The only person I could get a response from was the feed manufacturer because I was questioning a vitamin deficiency. They are checking into it but they also identified the problem for me. The first was definitely a heart attack, the second was slipped tendon and the one I got in a crate was the same. After doing some research found that slipped tendons are from a vit deficiency very early on. When I got my birds the feed I wanted to use was out of stock and had to wait a few days for it to come in. I had some old feed left over from a previous year and was told at the feed store that as long n g as it was dry, had no bugs or mold it was fine to feed. So now I know, it was my fault. My layers are getting my left over feed this time and it can help them grow their new feathers in. I switched the meat birds to maintenence feed and only let them eat twice a day for an hour at a time to help slow down or stop the growth so we could make it to processing. We rescheduled processing with someone else that could get them in sooner and it's done now.
So there it is. Maybe someone can learn from my mistake.
Thanks.

 

[FunClucks]

I wasn't asking to diagnose and treat but was wanting to diagnose so I might know if they were safe to eat. I did find that if a bird has Merek's they are safe to eat and if laying their eggs are safe to eat or hatch. If you don't know what's a wrong with your birds you can't even attempt tp prevent it in the future if that's possible.
Yesterday my son took them to be processed. The only person I could get a response from was the feed manufacturer because I was questioning a vitamin deficiency. They are checking into it but they also identified the problem for me. The first was definitely a heart attack, the second was slipped tendon and the one I got in a crate was the same. After doing some research found that slipped tendons are from a vit deficiency very early on. When I got my birds the feed I wanted to use was out of stock and had to wait a few days for it to come in. I had some old feed left over from a previous year and was told at the feed store that as long n g as it was dry, had no bugs or mold it was fine to feed. So now I know, it was my fault. My layers are getting my left over feed this time and it can help them grow their new feathers in. I switched the meat birds to maintenence feed and only let them eat twice a day for an hour at a time to help slow down or stop the growth so we could make it to processing. We rescheduled processing with someone else that could get them in sooner and it's done now.
So there it is. Maybe someone can learn from my mistake.
Thanks.

I'm glad you got things sorted to your satisfaction. I think even with in-date feed with excellent nutrition, you will still see heart attack and slipped tendons. I have had excellent nutrition and fresh in-date feed, and had that happen still. CX are genetically prone to it. Reducing growth is the only thing that seems to help somewhat, but it won't help all the birds. The term for this leg issue is Tibial dyschondroplasia (TD).

They also have a condition where their legs can seem straight and then suddenly start to grow crooked at the hock joint (Valgus-varus deformity (VVD)). I had a bird like that once. It presented like slipped tendon, but after processing, the joint was just fine, the bone beneath the joint had taken off growing at some random angle after being fine for months. That is also something they're genetically prone to.

I don't think this was your fault, and personally I doubt it had much if anything to do with old feed, since it's a known issue in commercial flocks, which often have more throughput and fresher feed that you can get as a backyard farmer. But making sure you have fresh, highly nutritious feed is an excellent choice either way. I doubt it will fix the issue, but it could help improve it. You may never know for sure, as it's hard to separate out the effect of genetics from the effect of supplementation/ adequate nutrition.

Good luck with your next batch!

 

[HenriettaPizzaNolan]

To add to what others have said, I am a firm believer that a lot of the "inevitable" losses with Cornish X are actually (with some exceptions of course) quite preventable with proper nutrition. People over-feed them in my opinion. When I follow Meyer Hatchery's feeding directions, which call for an 18% protein after the first 2-3 weeks, I don't ever see leg or heart issues.

People are always told to feed 20+% protein, but I honestly think that's where a lot of these issues come from. These birds are bred to put on muscle at a higher rate, but I don't think that means they need more protein than you'd normally feed your flock. Their bodies will still put on that weight, but maybe slightly slower (although I still average 4.5-5.5 dressed in 8-10 weeks). I think it's a fair tradeoff to prevent loss and uphold good animal husbandry. My CX graze in the yard just like my other birds. They do stop to sit on occasion, but they actually love to walk and peck around if not too heavy for their limbs to support them.

Here's a link to Meyer Hatchery's feeding guide. Scroll down to see the little chart. I really feel this is the way!

Best of luck with your meat bird endeavors.