Help!! Marek's Disease??

[realsis]

he has a doctrine aka DR. i didn't say he had treatment i simply said he could help with handling the situation. as he is a very wise and educated man also very wise on the subject of Mareks. he can help her move forward from here. if it were me I'd like to speak with a professional in getting help that i need and what to do to move forward.as you can agree there are much mid information about. Dr brown is not a vet however IS a doctor.or has his doctrine. he is VERY educated and has EXCELLENT advice! forgive me if somehow I've offended you however i do know than have been known to vaccinate in the face of outbreak. also Dr brown can explain that in more detail and what the percentages and results of doing so was. you seem so offended when I'm only trying to be helpful. i do NOT know it all NOR do you so i was suggesting a professional opnion in this situation. please forgive me if in ANY WAY i have offended ANYONE! i still believe it would be EXTREMELY helpful if she did have the consultant with DR brown. perhaps he can help her in a way we cant..in the very LEAST make some suggestions that are helpful. i am NOT trying to offend anyone. again sorry if your offended. i am only trying to help.i believe a consult in the very least can help guide in a POSITIVE direction.

 

[Haunted55]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, let's just back up here a minute Realsis. Casportpony, Seminlolewind and I aren't offended. Sad maybe, but I don't think offended. Seminole was making a point here. 'Dr.' Brown isn't a Veterinarian. He may have a lot of information about chickens, but is he really as up to date on Marek's as you seem to think from your consultation? I hope so! It's very easy to give advice about the Marek's vaccine. In fact I will go so far as to say in MHO it's a no brainer. Do it or you may pay the price later.

I'm very glad you feel you got your monies worth from him. That's great! It's very nice to feel as if we've got a 'good deal' on something. But, and it's a big one, it wasn't nice of you to imply that we, who live this everyday, couldn't possibly know what we are talking about. I am in contact with researchers at least monthly and the rest of the time I scour the net for anything new because trust me, the information on Marek's changes. Marek's is mutating quite quickly as this new chicken ownership movement gets larger. A lot of people foolishly or otherwise, don't believe it could happen to them. Or they may be of the group who think that they'll cull and start again. This is what is causing the mutations and rapid spread that is happening now. People don't understand that if their chickens have Marek's, then so do they, for all intensive purposes. That is reality, period.

In MHO, I don't believe that 'Dr.' Brown has all the answers, nor would a Veterinarian who isn't working with it everyday or at least keeping up to date on all of the latest research being done. The idea that Marek's is only spread through the air is false. It certainly can be and in fact can travel up to 50 miles, if conditions are right, but it isn't the only way. There are different forms of Marek's and not all are contracted or present the same way.

You have seen me on other threads where I have told others that there is a school of thought to revaccinate your birds when a known exposure to Marek's has occured. There's a chance that it will work and it's better than nothing. There's also another group who seem to think it might be a better idea to revaccinate every year. Or there are even those, like myself, who allow their chickens to range with their turkeys. I know for a fact that works quite well.

I really hope, that for just a moment, you'll stop and think about what I am trying to tell you. BYC has a wealth of intelligent and extremely informed people who are in the trenches and living this everyday. People who get calls from researchers and State Veterinarians about their results from necropsies and what led up to the demise of the bird and what the conditions were. People who are making the life and death decisions for their birds daily.

Oh, one last thing....do not believe that because you vaccinated your birds, they are safe. Only if the strain or strains they may become exposed to are covered by the vaccination they were given. If they are exposed to a mutated strain, all deals are off. they can and will get it and most times, for some reason, it's a higher mortality that will be faced.

 

[aigars]

Hi, and thanks a lot.

This disease is really confusing.

If i vaccinate my chickens they can still get infection but they will not suffer the simpthoms of illness and they become a carriers and can infect others- right?

In this case its crazy. have to vaccinate all from this now or start my flock from beginning.

And there is no guarantee that in vaccinated chickens i buy is no disease....

Its interesting that i had also turkey chickens living together and they didnt get sick. (ore they become carriers without simpthoms?)
Thanks again and have to say- best forums and posts- really helpful!

 

[kacklinkelly]

Boy is this thread informative!

I am relatively new to back yard chickens. First time having 3 chickens. They just
started laying this month. Is it too late to vaccinate them? I will do some research
online until someone wakes up. (am at work right now)

 

[Haunted55]

Hi, and thanks a lot.

This disease is really confusing.

If i vaccinate my chickens they can still get infection but they will not suffer the simpthoms of illness and they become a carriers and can infect others- right?

In this case its crazy. have to vaccinate all from this now or start my flock from beginning.

And there is no guarantee that in vaccinated chickens i buy is no disease....

Its interesting that i had also turkey chickens living together and they didnt get sick. (ore they become carriers without simpthoms?)
Thanks again and have to say- best forums and posts- really helpful!

No, if vaccinated, and the waiting period after the vaccination is observed, they are not carriers. They do not infect others. While it is true that they can still get it, they do not show the tumors, etc., that an unvaccinated bird could show.

I too have to vaccinate all and any chickens I want to add to my flock and have to keep them separate for 6 months, up to year. If you suspect Marek's get a necropsy done. In fact, anytime one of your birds die, and there is no know cause, it's a good idea to have one done. This gives you the information to deal with problems in the future.

From what I was told, the chickens are pretty much constantly being 'revaccinated' by being with the turkeys. I'll share something with you. Last summer, I got hit with a really bad strain of Marek's. I had purchased some birds from a farm store and they hadn't been vaccinated, even though I was told they were. This was in April. In May I received another batch of birds ordered through another farm store, these were vaccinated for sure, but only with the turkey Marek's vaccine. My last batch of birds came in late May. These had been ordered from a hatchery who vaccinates with 3 different vaccines for Marek's. While my older hens and roos were not affected, the new ones were. With birds either having to be culled or just plain dying, I threw up my hands and just stopped with the separations. I had been told that I could even lose the turkeys if the strain of Marek's had mutated enough so why bother right? Funny thing, the chickens stopped becoming paralyzed. Make no mistake, they were still sick, but even the ones who were showing the stumbling gait and partial paralysis seemed to get better. Over this last winter, the birds were separated into their different houses and I have lost more of these Marek's survivors. Usualy to the occular form, but there was one who did die with paralysis. Coincidence? Possibly, but it will be very interesting to see what happens when they can all be outside roaming again.

 

[Haunted55]

Boy is this thread informative!

I am relatively new to back yard chickens. First time having 3 chickens. They just
started laying this month. Is it too late to vaccinate them? I will do some research
online until someone wakes up. (am at work right now)

If I were you, I would really do some investigating and learn what you can. It can be done, but you need to educate yourself first! If you have never had chickens before and have no reason to think they are going to be exposed, I would say don't do it. Why trouble trouble right? Biosecurity is going to be your best friend. Instead of thinking about the vaccine now, I would make a list for myself of all the necessary steps to keep your flock safe and healthy. There are many threads and lists on BYC that spell this all out. Print it out and post it and then practise, practise, practise. Until this then becomes the norm for you. More than any vaccine at this point, biosecurity will keep your flock safe not just from Marek's, but all of the nasties that can harm or take out your flock.

 

[kacklinkelly]

Thank you soooo much. I have done so much research and am amazed at how
much more there is to do. Before moving onto the incubating phase (which is
next for me) I will certainly look up your recommendations. So far, I am the only
one within Several adjoining yards that has any poultry. I'm probably the only
one on my block but can't be positive of that.

 

[seminolewind]

Boy is this thread informative! 

I am relatively new to back yard chickens.  First time having 3 chickens.  They just
started laying this month.  Is it too late to vaccinate them?  I will do some research
online until someone wakes up.  (am at work right now)

Hi. There is so much unknown. There is no proof that revaccination works better than a 1x vaccination.

If vaccinated chickens are added to an exposed flock, they become exposed and carry Marek's, but 90% will not die from Marek's. The vaccinated chickens can be exposed and can infect your non vaccinated chickens, even it they don't die from it. Most likely because they were exposed to other chickens. It's been said that vaccinated birds if exposed, carry a less potent virus, and won't infect as many, and spread less infected dander and dust. But being said and being proven are 2 different things. Mr. Brown says it can't hurt to try.

Wild birds can carry it, but only chickens in their territory would possibly be exposed. How big is a wild bird's territory? I wouldn't know. But if they carry Marek's from a flock a few blocks away and come to your property, they can expose your chickens.

Vaccinating sick chickens to save them has never been proven. But Mr. Brown says it's worth trying even tho not proven.

Texas A&M has up to date research, and also offers blood testing for Marek's. Much cheaper than a necropsy. You may want to call them and get instructions on how to send blood, and have your vet draw it. Then pack it with ice packs and send it. I personally would do it with a live symptomatic chicken but any chicken will do.

The only way to protect 90% of your chicks is to vaccinate day one if you incubate. Or get day old vaccinated hatchery chicks. Quarantine them for 2+ weeks. OR have a closed flock (not buy chicks except day olds from a hatchery, or incubate your own. It must be from day one.

I have found that separating out symptomatic birds, like Haunted said , does nothing. She also says that biosecurity is your best friend, true. SpeckledHen is one I know of that has practiced biosecurity and has not had any Marek's problems.

It's extremely hard to not buy chicks or chickens from a feed store or a swap or show. I bought one, and she infected my whole flock. Lesson learned. I now go to flocks to chat with other members, and change all my clothes , wash my hands, and not use my chicken shoes when I go.

Vaccinated chickens will not infect others UNLESS they have been exposed to carriers-even vaccinated.

Gosh there is so much information. It's been around for more than 100 years. Vaccinating , not mixing flocks, and disinfection has only been faithfully done by hatcheries for not even 40 years-and losses were reduced to 5% from 30-50%.

Read alot, but also look at the date the info has been published. And the source of the published information.

 

[seminolewind]

Kacklinkelly. If your 3 have never been exposed to other chickens,and your property has never had chickens, and came as day olds straight from a hatchery, I would vaccinate. It will only help those who have never no way been exposed. The same goes for if all your chickens were from your own incubator.

 

[kacklinkelly]

Thank you for taking the time to respond providing so much detail.
Much appreciated.