HELP ME PLEASE!! I've already lost 2 girls from Marek's. I need guidance for future PLEASE

[Jezalilly]

Hi all.
My girls are around 3 years old. I bought them at a feed store and was told they were vaccinated.
Fast forward 2 years...I got fertilized eggs from another Backyard Chicken mommy and it didn't occur to me to even ask!! Yes, I KNOW I'M AM ASSHOLE... please don't make me feel even worse. The 10 chicks hatched and ultimately I kept 2 of the babies. The writing theory is they were vertically infected and passed it to my flock.
The vet said I don't have to cull the remaining 4 girls because they may not be infected. I'm watching them everyday for changes that indicate Marek's and I'll do the right thing.
SO... HERE'S MY QUESTION:
There is so much conflicting information out there...
I spent THOUSANDS in "CHICKENTOPIA " and need to know how to make it safe for my next flock.
Thank you for any help.

 

[nuthatched]

Quit beating yourself up, sheesh. It's not worth it.
Unfortunately, the mareks vaccine doesn't prevent mareks, it just gives them a mild case of mareks so if they catch it, it should be mild, but it's not always the case.
The mareks vaccine is also considered a leaky vaccine, so under certain conditions, it *might* spread to other birds from immunized, not symptom birds.
The new chicks didn't get it from their mothers and give it to your birds. There's a better chance the new chicks actually might have got mareks from your existing flock. You'll just have to have a closed flock from here on out, only add vaccinated birds, don't add unknowns or give anyway. Many birds survive mareks and live full lives.
Here's some good info on it.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq.66077/

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

Hi all.
My girls are around 3 years old. I bought them at a feed store and was told they were vaccinated.
Fast forward 2 years...I got fertilized eggs from another Backyard Chicken mommy and it didn't occur to me to even ask!! Yes, I KNOW I'M AM ASSHOLE... please don't make me feel even worse. The 10 chicks hatched and ultimately I kept 2 of the babies. The writing theory is they were vertically infected and passed it to my flock.
The vet said I don't have to cull the remaining 4 girls because they may not be infected. I'm watching them everyday for changes that indicate Marek's and I'll do the right thing.
SO... HERE'S MY QUESTION:
There is so much conflicting information out there...
I spent THOUSANDS in "CHICKENTOPIA " and need to know how to make it safe for my next flock.
Thank you for any help.

Marek’s can’t be passed from parent to egg, though there are other similar viruses that can (like avian leukosis).

If your chickens did die of Marek’s, then the rest of your flock is definitely infected. However, that does not mean they’ll develop symptoms. It does mean that you’ll have to keep a closed flock in the future (don’t sell/give away any birds).

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

Quit beating yourself up, sheesh. It's not worth it.
Unfortunately, the mareks vaccine doesn't prevent mareks, it just gives them a mild case of mareks so if they catch it, it should be mild, but it's not always the case.
The mareks vaccine is also considered a leaky vaccine, so under certain conditions, it *might* spread to other birds from immunized, not symptom birds.
The new chicks didn't get it from their mothers and give it to your birds. There's a better chance the new chicks actually might have got mareks from your existing flock. You'll just have to have a closed flock from here on out, only add vaccinated birds, don't add unknowns or give anyway. Many birds survive mareks and live full lives.
Here's some good info on it.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq.66077/

The vaccine does not give chickens Marek’s. But, any vaccinated bird that later gets Marek’s is a carrier and will spread it despite being vaccinated.

 

[nuthatched]

The vaccine does not give chickens Marek’s. But, any vaccinated bird that later gets Marek’s is a carrier and will spread it despite being vaccinated.

You're right, I'm sorry, I explained that poorly. It gives chickens a strain similar to mareks so the chicken's body can *usually* know how to fight mareks and hopefully survive. As you said, if they get exposed to it later, things change.

 

[Jezalilly]

Thank y'all for your responses. I should have clarified... the vet that did the first necropsy did say it could be Marek's OR avain Leukosis... that both diseases present the way Parmesan's cancer was.
I THOUGHT he also said Marek's caused Avian Leukosis... but I'm probably confused and it was just that Marek's was the cause of the tumors/ cancer.
So, here are my new questions... and thank yak in advance for any guidance. I have researched this subject A LOT and am finding so much conflicting information. I feel like it helps to get the info from real people and go from there...

1) Is it important that I definitively diagnosis Marek's vs Avian Leukosis? Would there be different approaches for one verses the other?

2) I've been running on the assumption I shouldn't add and new girls to this flock because they are infected. I know I can't give any away but I'm VERY interested in the responsibility I have for the health of potential new babies. I've been under the impression that once this flock has all gone to the Rainbow Bridge I'd have to undergo very intense decontamination and wait anywhere from a few months to YEARS before getting any new girls.

3) Obviously my girls are adored pets and their well-being is paramount. I worry about any of my current flock suffering with tumors but since they are such stoic little buggers, I'm unaware of any pain they are experiencing. I check them thoroughly for signs (fading color of comb, not eating, poopy butt...) but I'm not sure if that's enough. What else can I do for them?

I know I'm throwing a lot out there, lol. Again, thank y'all for feedback and education. I'm sure there will be more questions to follow...lol.

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

1) @azygous may be able to answer your questions about avian leukosis.

2) If you do want to get any more chickens, I would only get ones that are vaccinated, since these are pets. They’ll still be carriers if vaccinated, but will have a much lower chance of developing symptoms.

3) Keep their environment as stress-free as possible, Marek’s can be triggered by stress. Also, Marek’s causes a lowered immune system, so you may have to look out for things such as parasites, infections, and crop issues more closely than you would with a flock without the virus.

 

[Jezalilly]

1) @azygous may be able to answer your questions about avian leukosis.

2) If you do want to get any more chickens, I would only get ones that are vaccinated, since these are pets. They’ll still be carriers if vaccinated, but will have a much lower chance of developing symptoms.

3) Keep their environment as stress-free as possible, Marek’s can be triggered by stress. Also, Marek’s causes a lowered immune system, so you may have to look out for things such as parasites, infections, and crop issues more closely than you would with a flock without the virus.

Thank you for your response!!

 

[Kiki]

Thank y'all for your responses. I should have clarified... the vet that did the first necropsy did say it could be Marek's OR avain Leukosis... that both diseases present the way Parmesan's cancer was.
I THOUGHT he also said Marek's caused Avian Leukosis... but I'm probably confused and it was just that Marek's was the cause of the tumors/ cancer.
So, here are my new questions... and thank yak in advance for any guidance. I have researched this subject A LOT and am finding so much conflicting information. I feel like it helps to get the info from real people and go from there...

1) Is it important that I definitively diagnosis Marek's vs Avian Leukosis? Would there be different approaches for one verses the other?

2) I've been running on the assumption I shouldn't add and new girls to this flock because they are infected. I know I can't give any away but I'm VERY interested in the responsibility I have for the health of potential new babies. I've been under the impression that once this flock has all gone to the Rainbow Bridge I'd have to undergo very intense decontamination and wait anywhere from a few months to YEARS before getting any new girls.

3) Obviously my girls are adored pets and their well-being is paramount. I worry about any of my current flock suffering with tumors but since they are such stoic little buggers, I'm unaware of any pain they are experiencing. I check them thoroughly for signs (fading color of comb, not eating, poopy butt...) but I'm not sure if that's enough. What else can I do for them?

I know I'm throwing a lot out there, lol. Again, thank y'all for feedback and education. I'm sure there will be more questions to follow...lol.

Really doesn't matter which it is... Marek's or AL. You will still need to close your flock and never sell or give away birds. You will treat both diseases basically the same.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

I don’t believe future chickens need to be vaccinated. That may make things worse in the long term. Long term, you want to breed a flock that’s naturally resistant to Mareks. Breed your survivors that don’t develop symptoms. In a couple of generations, your birds may not ever show signs of ever having it.