Help! Micro Serama is ill!

[rebrascora]

I've just reread your original post and the initial symptoms of walking backwards and flipping over are neurological, as is an unsteady gait ..... can you take some video footage of her walking and upload it to You Tube or Vimeo and then post a link. I'm thinking this may be Marek's rather than a laying issue or perhaps both. Serama are one of the breeds that are particularly susceptible to it.

If she was laying internally there is no way for egg yolk material to get into the digestive tract, so I don't agree with the diagnosis of EYP. I think it is more likely to be salpingitis and some yolk got squeezed past the blockage in her oviduct. Antibiotics would help to control that but it is unlikely that she would manage to lay eggs properly ever again and eventually it would lead to internal laying as the oviduct becomes totally impacted. Marek's suppresses the immune system and makes them prone to infections as well as the neurological inflammation and eventual tumour development. If she is continuing to ovulate (ovaries releasing ripe follicles) then this is a ticking time bomb. A hormonal implant might buy you and her some time but the stress both of having it done and the hormonal change might aggravate the Marek's if I am right about that. Having said that, if she continues to ovulate she is almost certainly going to die anyway if those eggs can't come out, so there might be nothing to lose in giving it a go .... apart from a chunk of cash! Xrays might give you a better idea of what is going on but I believe they are very expensive and may not be conclusive.
I have Marek's in my flock and I know how attached you get to the "special" ones that you invest time in nursing for weeks and months. It is hard to know when to keep going and when to let them go and the longer it goes on, the more attached you get and the harder it becomes. My rule of thumb is, if they are bright eyed and interested in food, then I give them every opportunity to fight it, once they lose interest in food, then I end it for them.
I wish you luck with her. She is a sweetie. If you decide to go for an implant (not even totally sure they can insert them into such a small bird) let us know how she gets on please. It would also be helpful if you can let us know how much it cost as these things should come down in price as more people opt for the procedure and vets become more experienced at administering it. The price can vary quite a bit between establishments too, but I'm thinking you are going to need to find an avian vet to treat such a small chicken, so less opportunity for shopping around.

 

[FeeltheLove12]

The best part about this thread is the brainstorming from other folks that mirrors my own and allows me to revisit some of my thinking when I am too close to it to notice.....

That being said, I do not think it is Marek's disease. I have reviewed every symptom on multiple sites, and she just doesn't have any other symptoms... Her unsteady gait is uncharacteristic of the pattern of paralysis described in the research, and she has had a substantial recovery which I know can happen with Marek's also.

Vets around here would know less about how to treat her than I do, and I am reluctant to have them experiment on her....and I have that from a very good source.

My real concern is not her current symptoms, but why it says all over the internet that micro seramas die by 8-months old. Are there various complications due to gene manipulation or a specific issue I need to watch out for....in addition to what I a dealing with already????

At the moment, she is almost asymptomatic except for not laying eggs...which as I read could just be because she is so tiny... If that is the case, it is also possible she won't continue to ovulate either....and she doesn't seem to be.... In which case we may be out of the woods for now....but I want to anticipate what else may be coming that kills her besides this...so that I am prepared as I luckily was in this case.... Out here in the countryside, there is no reaction time. Any delay in mail order would have resulted in certain death.....I am very lucky I knew to have Baytril on hand...and wondering what else might be helpful to have in my emergency kit or to look out for....

(Her poop is normal, her comb is red, she's eating and drinking, clucking, and taunting the rooster next door. She flaps her wings, but walks like she's slightly tipsy....not backwards anymore and is able to direct her movement now... When I tried to put her with baby chicks for company....she stuck her nose in the air and walked directly and steadily away from them..wish I coulda had a video of that!! LOL)

THANKS EVERYONE....

 

[rebrascora]

The best part about this thread is the brainstorming from other folks that mirrors my own and allows me to revisit some of my thinking when I am too close to it to notice.....

Yes I was very conscious that I was typing my thoughts as they enter my head rather than having a more structured approach like I normally would. I really don't know anything about micro seramas but my bet would be that their immune system is compromised by the selective breeding to achieve the petite stature. I would doubt that there is anything specific that they all perish from but more that they just fail to thrive and are more susceptible to the huge array of diseases and illnesses that chickens are generally at risk from.

I think the key will be to supporting her immune and digestive system and keeping her as happy and stress free as possible, so good quality feed, perhaps a vitamin supplement like Poultry Nutri Drench or Poultry Cell a couple of times a week and maybe probiotics or fermented feed, particularly since she has been on long term anti Bs. Probably a good idea to have Corid on hand too, just in case, if you don't already.

My concern would be that she is ovulating if her comb is bright red..... that is the obvious outward sign that she is fertile.... it is what tells a rooster that she is ready to mate. Perhaps restricting her access to daylight for slightly longer periods each day might be another way to control ovulation. Can you feel or see any abdominal swelling, particularly between her legs or below her vent?

For what it's worth I share your concerns about vets in respect of chickens. There are people on this website whose judgement and knowledge I would trust long before I would visit a vet.

 

[azygous]

You might want to examine this thread from a few months ago carefully. https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/egg-yolk-peritonitis.1154532/ It has some graphic photos of a EYP necropsy as well as a brief discussion of what to expect if you decide on implants to control ovulation.

It will be interesting to hear what your vet discovers. Hopefully you will get a diagnosis.

 

[FeeltheLove12]

I like the suggestion to keep her in low light....it certainly can't hurt (and is easily done since we are still getting snow in these parts!) Today, she has put on some weight and pooping up a storm...all looks normal. I do have Poultry Cell, and I feed organic...but fermenting it would be a better way. I will pick up some Corrid, so I am prepared and continue to hope for the best. I am also wondering about Show and Gamebird feed....

Thus far, there has been no masses between her legs, nothing tumor or egg-like....Out of an abundance of caution, I picked up some St. John's Wort....gotta watch out for the extracts/tinctures.....there's a ton of alcohol in them....wouldn't want that to be the cause of her staggering! I bought Boirin pellets and am diluting them to see if it helps. I also note that she is losing more feathers now than usual....molting? hmm....

For what it is worth, from what I have read the micros are not necessarily bred although sought after. They just happen I guess. I am not sure whether she was engineered or not....but the owner was sure anxious to be rid of her....granted my bird was quite valuable, but it sure makes me wonder.... I have had people contact me about wanting the teeny tinys....I don't really get it when the cost economic and emotional cost is so high.... Regardless, she is here now and I love her dearly. She will get all I can give her and I will be forever changed by what I can learn from her. Totally grateful for 6 ounces of feathers and pluck!! Thanks, again!

 

[FeeltheLove12]

Just thought I would post an update on Penelope's condition....She is still with me...yay!
She did finally get a trip to the vet....because she was making slow progress doing what helped the first time. It am very happy I did it and it was pricey, but not out of line and worth every Penny (pun intended!) to have my peace of mind back....not just whether she lives or dies, but to know that I matter, too! And because I matter, she does! Sooooo......

She had a fecal analysis, x-ray, "pelvic exam" sans the stirrups, and blood drawn. No parasites (nice to rule it out but didn't think she did), no-eggs (but healthy looking yolks doing the right thing), no tumors, no broken bones, and no infection that could be detected by any other means than blood sample, yet to be analyzed. Absent the blood results, the vet thinks she may not have been eating enough and was worried about nutrition and how thin she was. Luckily, he weighed her and she had gained 2 oz since last time I weighed her, and she is now 8 ounces, but she needs to gain more....

One theory is the food was too large for her, and the other, via a chicken expert, is she may not be able to process the food she is getting. I am thinking Angel was jealous of her attentions from Boots, and kept her from it which may have started it.... Because interestingly enough, I had switched foods right before she showed signs of illness wondering about the size of it also... I think the expert is likely right because I have been wetting down her food and she is eating it. While she is gaining, it is not enough.... and she doesn't seem to have an appetite unless I am there (been working WAY TOO much)....poor baby...

While she is a micro, she must be a particularly hearty one because she has been ill for over a month now and is still quite strong even with my stressful attempts at helping her...and obviously, healthy in every other way....

I got some very good tidbits from both experts, both very sound....
Vent exam would not reveal most egg binding, because a sphincter separates the egg deposit spot from the cloa
Hard boiled eggs are better for them than fried because no oil is used and that is VERY hard for a bird to process.... (I have seen debates about that on this sight, based on what I have been seeing, I think it is accurate....no oil of any kind for Penelope! ...or any others of mine!

I'll update later on blood results and methods of getting the food to absorb....In the meantime, thanks, again and again!

 

[azygous]

Isn't it comforting to know exactly what's going on? Glad this tiny one is okay except for the weight. As long as you're moistening her food, have you considered fermenting it? That releases nutrients unavailable in the dry form. It could make a big difference in her absorption of available nutrients and she might gain more weight.

 

[FeeltheLove12]

Working on that now! Thanks for the encouragement!

 

[FeeltheLove12]

Just writing to report that my little girl passed away in my arms tonight....in the end, I don't think anyone knew what was going on for her...one expert never came through with a promise to send a supplement that would help, and the vet ended up discovering that she did have a bacterial infection...by then he had taken her off the antibiotics and she was so far gone by the time he got the blood test results back that we couldn't fix it. I can't believe she lasted 2 months being so severely ill but remained perky and content until last night. I actually had a friend do a Reiki healing on her, and that is when everything changed...So much sweetness in a little body....so very grateful to have had her at all.

Breeders and buyers of micros just for the sake of micros, are not my friends...... man should not play with the work of the gods.....poor baby....

 

[azygous]

My heart hurts for you. I know how badly she will be missed.