Help needed customizing low estrogen and gluten free feed

[U_Stormcrow]

I linked a sizeable study showing increased incidence of Bumblefoot in broilers, attributed to change in fecal consistency and "stickiness", in a diet of 1% Chlorella, and noted the study had its limits. Obviously, there are significant differences between Ross 308s kept in cages on commercial feed and free ranging semi-wild ducklings about a pond. For starters, chicken droppings and duck droppings normally look nothing alike - see sig below, I have both, and have stepped in the droppings of both.

Neither can be directly compared to a study looking at serum and liver cholesterol changes and relative concentrations of certain fatty acids in another short term study.

Use the research for what it is. Nothing (well probably nothing) is an absolute good or bad - merely a series of trade offs.

 

[Ital]

I linked a sizeable study showing increased incidence of Bumblefoot in broilers, attributed to change in fecal consistency and "stickiness", in a diet of 1% Chlorella, and noted the study had its limits. Obviously, there are significant differences between Ross 308s kept in cages on commercial feed and free ranging semi-wild ducklings about a pond. For starters, chicken droppings and duck droppings normally look nothing alike - see sig below, I have both, and have stepped in the droppings of both.

Neither can be directly compared to a study looking at serum and liver cholesterol changes and relative concentrations of certain fatty acids in another short term study.

Use the research for what it is. Nothing (well probably nothing) is an absolute good or bad - merely a series of trade offs.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S003257912500700X

Lots of interesting info in the above re multiple aspects of health including cholesterol levels amongst many others.

A particularly interesting result was the improved efficiency in conversion of feed to egg output and the potential for increased hatchability of eggs, especially when used as I do in combination with moringa.

Positive effects on the microbiome do seem to become biphasic over 10% inclusion so that’s probably the limit.

@U_Stormcrow in your opinion how would you say chlorella compares to soya as a protein supplement after reading the above link? I’m doubtful soya can compete on anything other than price.

___________________


Quotes re changes to cholesterol levels as a result of supplementation..

‘The hepatoprotective effects of Spirulina have been well documented in poultry, including in the study by Selim et al. (2018), who observed significant improvements in liver function biomarkers in laying hens. Specifically, dietary supplementation with Spirulina was associated with reduced serum levels of cholesterol, alanine aminotransferase (ALT), and aspartate aminotransferase (AST) which are key indicators of hepatic integrity and metabolic health.

Spínola et al. (2024) found lower cholesterol content in the breast muscles, improved antioxidant profile, and higher levels of PUFAs in chickens' breast and leg muscles after using Spirulina. Similar effects were shown by Abbas et al. (2020) in groups where spirulina was used at levels of 1, 2, 3, and 4 % in the feed

Algae in feeding laying hens positively affected the quality characteristics of eggs, such as yolk color, eggshell strength, cholesterol content, and yolk fatty acid profile. The decrease in cholesterol content in eggs due to the action of Spirulina algae results from a decrease in the blood serum of birds.
(Zahroojian et al., 2013). For Japanese quail eggs, 1 % Spirulina in feed reduced the cholesterol content of egg yolks by almost 20 %’

 

[saysfaa]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S003257912500700X

Lots of interesting info in the above re multiple aspects of health including cholesterol levels amongst many others.

A particularly interesting result was the improved efficiency in conversion of feed to egg output and the potential for increased hatchability of eggs, especially when used as I do in combination with moringa.

Positive effects on the microbiome do seem to become biphasic over 10% inclusion so that’s probably the limit.

@U_Stormcrow in your opinion how would you say chlorella compares to soya as a protein supplement after reading the above link? I’m doubtful soya can compete on anything other than price.

___________________


Quotes re changes to cholesterol levels as a result of supplementation..

‘The hepatoprotective effects of Spirulina have been well documented in poultry, including in the study by Selim et al. (2018), who observed significant improvements in liver function biomarkers in laying hens. Specifically, dietary supplementation with Spirulina was associated with reduced serum levels of cholesterol, alanine aminotransferase (ALT), and aspartate aminotransferase (AST) which are key indicators of hepatic integrity and metabolic health.

Spínola et al. (2024) found lower cholesterol content in the breast muscles, improved antioxidant profile, and higher levels of PUFAs in chickens' breast and leg muscles after using Spirulina. Similar effects were shown by Abbas et al. (2020) in groups where spirulina was used at levels of 1, 2, 3, and 4 % in the feed

Algae in feeding laying hens positively affected the quality characteristics of eggs, such as yolk color, eggshell strength, cholesterol content, and yolk fatty acid profile. The decrease in cholesterol content in eggs due to the action of Spirulina algae results from a decrease in the blood serum of birds.
(Zahroojian et al., 2013). For Japanese quail eggs, 1 % Spirulina in feed reduced the cholesterol content of egg yolks by almost 20 %’

Lower cholesterol in chickens and eggs is good for the chickens and chicks?

 

[Ital]

Lower cholesterol in chickens and eggs is good for the chickens and chicks?

I’m not too worried about cholesterol levels in the eggs in terms of my own intake but yes, as with humans, although high cholesterol was considered a problem, its now thought to be symptomatic of one.

The analogy used as an explanation of the process is ambulances at the scene of accidents, if looking down from above you more often than not saw ambulances at road crashes you would assume a causal link and blame the ambulance for the crash. We now know that cholesterol increases as a result of injury in order to limit damage, reduced levels suggest that the birds are in good health.

 

[saysfaa]

I’m not too worried about cholesterol levels in the eggs in terms of my own intake but yes, as with humans, although high cholesterol was considered a problem, its now thought to be symptomatic of one.

The analogy used as an explanation of the process is ambulances at the scene of accidents, if looking down from above you more often than not saw ambulances at road crashes you would assume a causal link and blame the ambulance for the crash. We now know that cholesterol increases as a result of injury in order to limit damage, reduced levels suggest that the birds are in good health.

Maybe. Unless they need cholesterol for a bunch of essential things (like humans do), and they had the amount they needed for those things without extra because they weren't dealing with damage. Then lowering would not be good.

Or if they were having damage and the amount of damage wasn't changed.

20% is a huge drop. Do you know if hatchability trials were done?

 

[saysfaa]

... Do you know if hatchability trials were done?

I read the linked paper again and found part of the answer...

"Despite their strong biological potential, research on the specific effects of Spirulina and Chlorella on avian reproductive parameters remains limited. ...Data concerning the effects on female reproductive performance, including ovarian development, oocyte maturation, and the biological value of hatching eggs, are sparse and often inconclusive..."

The other thing I noticed is the amounts of algae added were small percentages - o.3%, 0,5%, 1%, 3%. i think there was a 6% - of the ration. Notably, problems were found at higher rates.

Still, it is interesting and promising.

I went by what they said about the studies they discussed. I didn't read any of them myself.

 

[Ital]

@saysfaa

Reduced cholesterol is a good thing, it’s produced as required to limit damage. Levels are lower as a result of reduced injury.
I wonder if this would be an effective alternative to statins in humans.

https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02932-8

The above didn’t notice any adverse effect in broilers at 10%.

From the previous link..

‘3 % and 6 % in the rearing of broiler chickens significantly improved the feed conversion ratio’

‘hatching rates from eggs collected in the second month of laying improved in several Chlorella-supplemented groups, with viable chick hatchability ranging from 72.6 % to 78.9 %, compared to only 66.8 % in the control group.
The beneficial effects of microalgae on reproductive performance may be partially attributed to enhanced nutrient bioavailability, particularly of trace minerals and essential fatty acids. Microalgae are rich in compounds that support gut function, which is crucial for reproductive success. According to Jamil et al. (2015), these effects are further reinforced by favorable shifts in gut microbiota, where beneficial bacterial populations increase at the expense of pathogenic species; thereby improving gastrointestinal health, nutrient absorption, and systemic physiological efficiency. These findings suggest that Spirulina and Chlorella supplementation may be effective nutritional tools for improving productive and reproductive parameters in laying hens. Their multifaceted impact, from feed efficiency and hatchability to microbiome modulation, supports their potential inclusion in natural performance-enhancing feeding strategies in poultry production systems.’

However, 10% inclusion does seem to be the limit..

‘15 % Spirulina, either alone (SP) or in combination with commercial enzymes (SPV: 15 % Spirulina + 0.025 % enzyme) or porcine pancreatin (SPP: 15 % Spirulina + 0.10 %), resulted in significantly reduced body weight, weight gain, and feed conversion ratio (FCR) by day 35. These performance declines were mechanistically associated with a marked increase in intestinal viscosity, particularly in the ileum, where viscosity values nearly doubled (11.8–12.8 cP) compared to the control group fed a standard commercial diet (6.23 cP). High digesta viscosity is known to impair nutrient diffusion, slow gastric emptying, and create an environment less favorable for enzymatic hydrolysis and nutrient transport, ultimately leading to decreased nutrient absorption’

 

[Ital]

This might be of interest to some, I wonder if it also offers any protection from avian influenza.

‘The immunostimulatory effect of Spirulina on broiler chickens has been confirmed by reducing the excretion of Newcastle Disease virus by up to 87 % using 2 g of algae per 1 kg of feed (Abotaleb et al., 2020).’

Eta re avian influenza..

‘performance of the infected chicks flock was improved at the first day of application of treatment and all over the treatment course, where the mortality rate was sharply , the feed and water consumption were increased and the vitality of the chickens was also increased . Also ,the boiler chicks in the second farm started laying eggs with a good quality and quantity’

https://jsrs.journals.ekb.eg/article_14747.html

 

[Ital]

Do you know if hatchability trials were done?

Also moringa is very effective for hatchability, I use both.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

@U_Stormcrow in your opinion how would you say chlorella compares to soya as a protein supplement after reading the above link? I’m doubtful soya can compete on anything other than price.

I occurs to me that you probably think this is a serious question. As I have had a remarkably bad week - one of the worst of the last five years or so - I'm going to hold off responding until I am in a more civil mood. I judge myself not fit for human company presently, and do not want to run afoul of the forum rules (again).