Help! Obese chickens!

[Aapomp831]

Eating fat doesn’t make you fat. True for chickens as well as humans. Eating fats are satiating and help nourish the brain. Sugars are the issue. The only animals on earth that are fat are the ones that are fed by us. Give them veggies as treats and don’t give them scraps with bread or processed sugars in them. Feed them as close to natural as possible.

 

[beans2]

Eating fat doesn’t make you fat. True for chickens as well as humans. Eating fats are satiating and help nourish the brain. Sugars are the issue. The only animals on earth that are fat are the ones that are fed by us. Give them veggies as treats and don’t give them scraps with bread or processed sugars in them. Feed them as close to natural as possible.

it depends on the quality of the fat and the individual animal.
the whole thing is more nuanced than one is good and another is bad.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

fats are necessary but fat types vary greatly. corn contains the wrong type of fats and phytic acid which inhibits absorption of nutrients...

That's finny, spinach and kale have the same effect. Are you saying to cut out the greens from a chicken's diet???? Feed your birds every thing just not to much of anything.

 

[beans2]

That's finny, spinach and kale have the same effect. Are you saying to cut out the greens from a chicken's diet???? Feed your birds every thing just not to much of anything.

not at all.
kale and spinach contain oxalic acid and phytic acid in forms that are easily dissolved in water. so soaking them for a few minuites before feeding them to chickens makes them totally fine.

also, most greens don't contain any phytic acid. (or at least not enough to undo the good of the nutrients in the greens themselves.)

seeds contain difficult to break down antinutrient factors like phytic acid to help the seed store nutrients for later use.

some seeds also contain phytase enzyme which breaks down the phytic acid and neutralises it.
Corn contains alot of phytic acid and its phytase is stored in a way that you must fully sprout the seed to neutralise the phytic acid.

 

[beans2]

[QUOTE=" Feed your birds every thing just not to much of anything.[/QUOTE]

your totally right that variety is best though!

I know number of risk analysists who always say "take your poison in moderation" as a nod to the fact that most things are healthy in moderation and anything can be poisonous if you take too much.

that's why the whole fashion for 'superfoods' is total bull.

 

[Aapomp831]

it depends on the quality of the fat and the individual animal.
the whole thing is more nuanced than one is good and another is bad.

The only thing that matters is the quality of the animal you are eating. We evolved as a species eating the whole animal, all the fat included. Our brains are made of fat and need fat to function properly. Carbohydrates turn to sugar which turns to body fat.

 

[beans2]

The only thing that matters is the quality of the animal you are eating. We evolved as a species eating the whole animal, all the fat included. Our brains are made of fat and need fat to function properly. Carbohydrates turn to sugar which turns to body fat.

thats an oversimplification.

there are several different ways the body stores fat. some healthy, some unhealthy - and healthiness depends on your living situation (climate, activity etc).

as a rule grass fed animals produce healthy meat because they contain more omega 3s whereas cornfed animals contain huge quantities of omega 6 without enough omega 3's to produce fat transport molecules and help you deal with other fats.
your right though that any animal will contain a range of different fats.

the reason organ meats tend to be healthier is that, in a healthy animal, they will contain much less omega 6 and more omega 3 fats. and more nutrients.
often we see in cornfed animals that their body stores fat inappropriately because they didn't have enough omega 3 in their diet to produce enough fat transport molecules.

 

[sirrobyn0]

I am nobodies nutritionist that for sure. In my earlier post on this thread I wrote about fatty liver and how it can lead to cirrhosis and eventually death. And that fatty liver is general term used for an unhealthy liver (and has nothing to do with weight), so I take that the chicken in question died from liver failure. So about 100 years ago I took collage class on drugs as a part of psychology course. Alcoholism being the primary focus of liver issues. Obviously I know that it is pretty unlikely that the chicken in question was an alcoholic. So I assumed that it must have been a defect. I still think given what the OP has said they are feeding their chickens that this was defect and not caused by diet. Even if the diet had been not so good, that's still a pretty young bird to die from a liver issue that isn't a defect. That's my take anyway.

 

[beans2]

I am nobodies nutritionist that for sure. In my earlier post on this thread I wrote about fatty liver and how it can lead to cirrhosis and eventually death. And that fatty liver is general term used for an unhealthy liver (and has nothing to do with weight), so I take that the chicken in question died from liver failure. So about 100 years ago I took collage class on drugs as a part of psychology course. Alcoholism being the primary focus of liver issues. Obviously I know that it is pretty unlikely that the chicken in question was an alcoholic. So I assumed that it must have been a defect. I still think given what the OP has said they are feeding their chickens that this was defect and not caused by diet. Even if the diet had been not so good, that's still a pretty young bird to die from a liver issue that isn't a defect. That's my take anyway.

that's really interesting but there is more than one way a liver can be damaged.

I'm training as a medical herbalist (we work a lot on nutrition) and I've lived and worked on farms my whole life. I've talked to several vets about this kind of thing.

liver stress, inflammation and fat collection are all related. which comes first is the question.
In the case of a chicken being fed mainly corn and soy, its likely that omega 3 and green plant deficiency is the problem.

to reiterate:
omega 3 is required to produce fat transport molecules so an animal can use and dispose of fat effectively.

green plants contain fibre and chlorophyll which improve an animals gut microbial balance which, in turn, improves nutrient absorption, immune function (reduces excess inflammation) and hormone production (which affects fat storage).

amazing how all this is just scraping the surface!

but when you look into most problems in most animals in a modern context often correcting the gut microbiome allows everything else to correct itself.

which means the whole thing can be as simple as: eat plants esp greens. don't eat too much omega 6. treat grains and beans before you eat them.

 

[sirrobyn0]

that's really interesting but there is more than one way a liver can be damaged.

I'm training as a medical herbalist (we work a lot on nutrition) and I've lived and worked on farms my whole life. I've talked to several vets about this kind of thing.

liver stress, inflammation and fat collection are all related. which comes first is the question.
In the case of a chicken being fed mainly corn and soy, its likely that omega 3 and green plant deficiency is the problem.

to reiterate:
omega 3 is required to produce fat transport molecules so an animal can use and dispose of fat effectively.

green plants contain fibre and chlorophyll which improve an animals gut microbial balance which, in turn, improves nutrient absorption, immune function (reduces excess inflammation) and hormone production (which affects fat storage).

amazing how all this is just scraping the surface!

but when you look into most problems in most animals in a modern context often correcting the gut microbiome allows everything else to correct itself.

which means the whole thing can be as simple as: eat plants esp greens. don't eat too much omega 6. treat grains and beans before you eat them.

beans2, I do understand that there is more than one way to damage a liver. So the title of the thread is Obese chickens. I think we all pretty much agree that his chickens are not obese, and that the chicken died of liver failure. I've stated my opinion on what I think caused the liver failure. The person that owns chicken has stated what they are fed, so I'm curious as someone that has obviously has ton of nutritional knowledge, do you think the liver problem was nutrition related?