Help! Peeping 12+ hours in shell Pipped Wiggling but no Zipping!

[Curnow]

Need advice please.

This incubator hatch has not been the greatest so far. 12 hatched fine on day 21-22 out of 32 eggs. Day 23 starts at 7 PM today. I have had 2 die in shell after pipping. It appears on had ruptured membrane due to it's rough treatment from the other chicks. The other appears to have been too large to turn.

The egg I am concerned with at the moment I noticed was chirping and peeping last night at about 8 pm. This morning there is a small pip and the chick is still chirping and the egg is seriously wiggling but it has not zipped. I do not know when it pipped in the night or this morning!

I don't know if this chick is in distress or just doing it's thing. This egg is really wiggling a lot.

How long should I wait. I don't want another to die in shell. I candled last night and there are chicks in all remaining eggs, but only movement in 2.

Oh, what to do???!!!

 

[chickens really]

Waiting is best. Are the pips to the top side of the egg?

 

[LynnaePB]

I'm not especially experienced so please take my advice with a grain of salt, I have however helped quite a few times with old or shipped eggs that had trouble hatching and as long as the chick isn't terribly malpositioned (like with its head between its thighs) I've had very good luck and the chicks I helped all did very well.

24 hours after pipping is usually when it's thought there may be a problem and the chick might need help. Seeing as it's nearing day 23 and you've had some bad luck with this hatch if you are worried that little one may not be able to zip properly you could open a little viewing window over the air cell to see if the chick is possibly shrink wrapped and can't make it out or if it's still needing more time before hatching. If you go that route though you'll have to make sure the other chicks can't get to that egg because it will now be more vulnerable if the blood vessels haven't been absorbed yet and you'll also have to make sure to keep the membrane damp (a little coconut oil is supposed to work well, I've used water in the past and although it does work it dries very quickly so you have to constantly reapply it).

If the chick doesn't need help and you begin the assisting process as long as you do it properly it shouldn't hurt the chick (even though it didn't need it). If the chick is having problems and is trying to zip but can't intervening earlier will be a good thing for the chick since it won't have been exhausting itself trying to get out as long.

I am terribly hands on (probably much more so than I should be), in your position I'd be opening that viewing window, especially seeing as the chick is rocking around so much. my babies who aren't ready to hatch yet don't rock around much, just occasionally.

This is a great article on assisted hatching https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/guide-to-assisted-hatching-for-all-poultry.72886/

The highlights I'd pay special attention to if you do decide to assist that will help tell you if the baby is really ready to come out yet are, whether or not there are visible blood vessels, if the chick is making a nibbling/eating motion, if the chick is continually striking outwards/upwards with its beak.

Even if the blood vessels have receded if that baby is making nibbling motions with its beak it is definitely not ready to come out and is still absorbing, only help it out if that nibbling has stopped completely. If it isn't nibbling at all, the blood vessels have receded and the baby is striking out with its beak as if trying to break the shell it should be ready. Good luck!!!

 

[Curnow]

Thank you SO much. I just helped the little one by cracking a zip line. I checked my calendar again, I was off a day...this is actually going into day 24!!! Had to peal the outer and inner membrane (tested for blood vessels with water) It was so crammed in there. Is this normal with chicks from huge hens like English Orpingtons? Their eggs are medium to large. The Sultans and Sultan crosses from this hatch pipped, zipped, and damn near hit the ground running!

So the wee one is out. Doing well so far. Thank you again for all the very quick help!

 

[LynnaePB]

Congratulations on the successful assist, I bet that baby was happy to get out!!!

I'm not sure about English Orpington babies being bigger since I mostly hatch bantams myself but I've heard if the air cell was on the small side the chick can sometimes be bigger and more crammed in there and have a harder time hatching. Different eggs lose moisture differently, I've heard darker shelled eggs can lose moisture more slowly so maybe the sultan eggs being lighter colored lost more moisture so the chicks hatched out better? Maybe someone with more knowledge about different breeds will be able to answer better though.

 

[Curnow]

Oh this hatch is so stressful. I candled and re candled all the remaining eggs again. thumped shells, turned eggs, and listened. No signs of movement or sound in any. I decided to take one out and see what was going on. Why were they all dead in shells!

Then I did it! I killed a chick!! Carefully started the eggtopsy. I chose an egg that I could clearly see in. I was most confident it was dead above all the others!! It was not. It was a breathing chick that appeared to have a few days before it hatched! This is horrible. How did this happen. All the eggs were gathered together and set at the same time. The only thing I can think of is cool spots in incubator. I quickly put ALL the others back in! This just bites!

Of the ones that hatched on time there was Cuckoo Marans cross, Sultan & Sultan Cross, and Olive Egger (my own hen from an EE and Cuckoo Marans cross) This has got to be my worst EVER!! Temp and humidity was reading right. Egg turner working well. UGH!

 

[LynnaePB]

I'm so sorry!

I start my eggtopsies exactly like an assist just in case.

Being so late it's definitely possible that little one wouldn't have made it even if you hadn't opened it, I'm really really sorry you had to go through that though.

Have you had successful hatches in this incubator before? What kind of incubator is it, still air or circulated?

 

[Curnow]

This incubator is a Hovabator still air with the additional egg turner. I just got it because it had pretty good reviews compared to the LG I had. I've only used it once before and that hatch I considered good. My own EE and Olive egger and a few random brown eggs hatched great. I had 18 shipped Buff Laced Brahma eggs in that hatch as well and got 2 that developed and hatched (1 male, 1 female). They hatched on St. Patrick's Day (March 17th) I'm ok with that on the Brahma eggs, they came from clear across the country when the weather was still pretty cold. So 2 I'm ok with even though more would have been better. My own eggs were all strong, healthy, and right on schedule!

I would like to try again, but wormed with ivermectin a couple days ago and can't find definitive information of whether hatching those eggs is ok or not. My usual broody hens haven't kicked in yet, and I'm currently using that small chicken house as a brooder house/yard and have an injured favorite Roo and hen housed there as well. The culprit that did it is in a roaster on the stovetop as we speak.

 

[LynnaePB]

I've heard good things about the hovabators too, and it sounds like it was working properly especially if you had such a good hatch before....

I'm not sure why you would have some babies being so behind but lots of dead in shell right at the end sounds like maybe a humidity problem. Was your humidity for this hatch vs the good hatch the same? Do you have an accurate hygrometer to check the humidity against what is displayed by the incubator readout?

I've never tried hatching eggs shortly after worming, I hope you are able to find the information you need about it though!

 

[LynnaePB]

Oh and how were the air cells throughout incubation, were they about the right size? I've read about a lot of peoples hatches being ruined by high humidity, a lot of incubator instructions list a humidity that is too high. I know with my hatches if I used the recommended 50% I would have terrible hatches, around 25-35% for the first 18 days works so much better for me ( it really depends on where you live and time of year, TN is where I live and its pretty humid so a low humidity is better for me).

If the weather was cold when you incubated last time maybe the humidity in your house was lower than it would be now in spring so what worked before didn't work now??? I'm just throwing out guesses though, I've heard the best thing to do is weigh the eggs and make sure they lose enough weight, I've never done that though and just track the air cell at days 7, 14, and 18 and adjust my humidity if they are looking too big or small.