Help, please, really weird problem w/ new hatch poults

[2overeasy]

So, I've never had turkeys before. But I knew I wanted them so when my reliable mamma cochin hen went broody, I ordered 6 hatching eggs.
I had built a "maternity ward" for a previous broody so that's where I put them. I ordered a Pawhut chicken coop (made for about 4 bantys), put it in a yard that I built with safe fence and deer net cover. The coop has a slide out cleaning tray, small hatch door and two nesting boxes. I took out the divider for the nesting boxes, however. I covered the floor with hay
So when my eggs came I put them in a little nest on the floor and moved my hen at night over to the maternity ward (she had been sitting on golf balls until eggs arrived).
When I checked her the next morning she had moved to the ledge where the nesting boxes are - but, of course she didn't take the eggs! So, I though, "okay, she'd rather be up there" so I put the eggs under her there.
During the 28 days she had kicked out 2 eggs and was left with four.
So she started hatching Friday night. When i went out to close up chickens for the night I went to close up the hen and almost stepped on a poult outside on the ground! It was still a bit damp, cold and weak. I snatched it up and slipped it under her. I have now idea how (or why) it hatched, left her, went out the door, down the ramp and ended up on the ground. So the next day I checked her throughout the day. Once I saw 2 baby poults sticking their heads out from under her.
Then when I checked again early evening I peeked in the house, one poult came out from under her to say "hello" but I didn't see more. But I heard a frantic little peeping coming from the right side of the house. I looked all the way over to the right of the house - about 3 ft from the door! - and saw another weak little baby with it's head stuck in the fence! So I snatched it up checked it, and stuck it back under mamma.
This morning when I checked one baby came out to visit but that's all I saw and the hen is still sitting. Needless to say I've left the coop door closed, especially since it's raining today here in SE TN.
I've never seen this behavior before in new hatches. A hen hatched out 7 chicks in that same coop 7 weeks ago and it didn't happen.
So, why are they doing this??? I keep trying to find info on turkeys not being smart or something b/c I just don't get it! I'm terribly worried about them now and have no idea what or how many are under her and alive. I've only seen one since yesterday morning but I've pulled out 3 shells (both halves) which leaves just one egg unhatched.
I know this is long and I'm sorry but I wanted you all to have all the information. And I desperately want help!
Thanks in advance

 

[SonnyGirl]

Take the poults and raise them inside for a bit. I don't know how it goes with chickens cause I only have experience with turkeys. I don't know if it makes them dumb or not (turkeys typically ground nest so the babies never have to worry about being up in the air or on a shelf and they typically start walking/climbing/scrambling on the ground within a few days). I had 10 poults hatch under their turkey Mom but the Mom had picked a shelf as her favorite nesting spot. I wanted to let her keep them, but she still had ten eggs under her and the poults were all climbing on top of her and spilling over the ledge. It was recommended (on here!) that I take them away either for a few days or until adulthood. I decided if they fell off the shelf again, I'd take them away. Well.. that night I woke up at 2am, 4am, 8am and 10am. Every time there was one poult on the ground that was cold and crying and I gave it back to her. At ten am when I came out, ALL of them were laying there on the ground, frozen and my hen was down there, finally got off her other eggs, but there was nothing she could do. Thank goodness, I was able to revive all of them and I couldn't believe they actually twitched and gasped their way back to life and nothing was wrong. Needless to say, I took them all and raised them inside for a few days. In the meanwhile, I took the shelf down (while she was out eating), and moved her nest to the floor in a little "maternity nook". It took a lot of work but was worth it. I gave them back to her and they all proceeded with normal behavior. Don't know if it would be the same for a chicken mom - but it sounds like you're having a hard time and their lives are at risk. I would definitely take them away even if it's just for a day or two until you can figure something out that would work. If she doesn't accept them back - the worst that would happen is you'd have to raise them up a little - but at least they'd all survive...

 

[2overeasy]

Thank you, Sonnygirl!
I've actually been back and forth with this all day, PMing both kuntrygirl and chicmom who both also said to take them - but neither suggested that I could give them back in a couple of days.
She's a great mamma to the 4 hatches (chicks) she's had in the past. But this has been a struggle. There are now 3 and that's all there will be.
I set up my brooder in the bathroom earlier and actually took them from her, but then my conscience (instinct?) got the better of me and I returned them to her and closed them up.
A friend also told me that he always took the poults from the hens b/c they don't know how to raise them and they would get too big too fast for her to manage them.
So if I do take them with the intention of trying to return them later, what do i do with her in the meantime? When I took them from her earlier she panicked and went looking for them everywhere. So when I gave them back, she settled immediately and coaxed them right back under her. That was about 3 hours ago. When I checked on them a few minutes ago she was still sitting with them under her.
I have 2 hens sitting on a total of 12 chicken eggs, due to hatch in about 9-10 days. Could I take the poults tonight, and slip a couple of those eggs under her, making her think she's still sitting? Then, in a couple of days, return the chicks at night, and give those eggs back to the original hens?
This is all so confusing and traumatic. I've devoted my entire day to this, and I'm still nervous and worried that I will do the wrong thing!

 

[SonnyGirl]

aww, you're really sensitive to your gals, like I am! That's nice to hear! I think people like us need to remember one thing, first and foremost: stop worrying SO much! haha You will figure this out.
The reason I even risked my little poults lives is because I was SO sensitive to my hen and I didn't want to "traumatize her" or make her neurotic, or even just plain old sad! She was such a wonderful layer and mommy and I wanted her to raise them, since they all meant so much to her! However, she's been through a few "less than ideal" situations and not become neurotic.. remember, their success rate in the wild was never great either and they just keep living and being birds!
As far as giving the poults back after only a couple of days - you will hear mixed things from people. Some recommend that you don't reintroduce until they are decently grown and then reintroduce like you would any other adult/grown bird, in which case they will be treated like strangers. Other people will say you can give them back after a day or two, three, etc. Being how I am, I was nervous either way!! lol. But I was assured that she would take to them again... and yes,To answer your question... that's what I was going to suggest - to try giving her a few eggs (or even the golf balls) to sit on while you take the poults for a bit. My hen still had some eggs to sit on. She looked around a little bit which made me feel bad, but she stayed on the nest and was fine. I returned the poults when she went to eat and took the eggs and everything went well. She seemed very happy and grateful to have her babies returned healthy and safe. And it was a better situation for her too - because them falling off and being in danger was upsetting her! I just wouldn't let too many days go by before returning them, or else she might not accept them as well.
Do you have someone who can help you set up a more ideal maternity area?? If so - my recommendation would be to take the poults away AS SOON as you can (over night would be hard! It would be best when she's NOT on the nest, like eating or drinking or if you can ever coax her outside)... Make sure the poults are happy and healthy and warm... they will be FINE without the mama.. they are very resilient and bond well to whoever is keeping them warm and fed! Keep her out of the coop while you and your help set things up more safely (a ground nest would be best, sectioned off so that no males can come in and step on them and so they have privacy. Also - they start moving and climbing and fluttering QUICK.. so a lip on the doorway that she can step over, but they cannot jump over would be best)... and then give her the poults back right away. I might also keep a red (or black) heating lamp in there for at night so they have alternate warmth if they crawl away from the mom, depending on your weather. If you can get it done in a couple hours - I would just take the poults away for a couple hours and just keep the Mom out of the coop! If she has grass/forage, she SHOULD be fairly calm about the whole thing. If, however, you need a couple of days - try the eggs. Let me know how it goes and what you decide! I would definitely keep those poults safe though, at any cost - even if it upsets her a little. I hate to say it cause Im sensitive too - but she will get over it, she will try again, and she will not be permanently emotionally damaged

 

[SonnyGirl]

Oh, P.S. with my last situation.. my hen's nest was on a shelf and the little poults didn't seem to be dumb, so much as VERY wriggly/energetic. They were crawling all over her to try to find their favorite comfy spots.. and even though there was a ledge/lip to "keep everyone in", I realized they were crawling ON her, onto her back to nuzzle into her feathers, and then tumbling off her back and over the ledge. It also didn't provide enough space for me to have a good food station set up for them. I ended up taking the poults for a couple of days and she wasn't QUITE as broody with the eggs as she had been before.. but it kept her calm. And when she went out to eat, I blocked her entrance - she calmly continued to forage - and I rearranged her coop better (should have seen me with the chain saw!! ahaha). Everything went great after that - and no more falling babies!

I am not sure, from your original post, if your problem is structural or not.. but, if so.. and if you need any ideas on a maternity area, let me know and I'd be happy to share what I did! Of course, there are a million great coop ideas on byc too where you might find some good ideas. I put them on the floor, like I said... but I still made a "nest" area in the cedar shavings ( I lined it with soft feathers I had collected previously) and made a nice, fairly deep depression - and they all really seemed to like that. I think it helped keep them all under her and covered too!

 

[SonnyGirl]

P.S.S. This is some advice that I was given when I was wondering about taking the poults away!

I let the turkey poults get strong in house couple days and if all eggs not hatched I bring the rest in the incubator and give babies back to momma turkey. Ours always take them back even few days later. They look at me like Thanks I am so glad you made them get stronger and start being good momma.

If it is too cold have you thought of hanging light with 100 watt bulb near the momma turkey to help babies stay warm.

 

[2overeasy]

Wow. So much to think about.
So here's the set up she's in now. It's a small coop made for bantys in its own fenced in yard. You can see the wire where they ran to stick their heads in.


Behind it is another coop and run we built that currently holds the 9 7-week olds that I ordered from MPC. I wanted to move Cinderella and the poults back there, and move the young ones to the front so they can get used to the rest of the flock as they free range. The other coop is in the back yard, the one in the above pic is right next to the front porch. The 7-week olds could live there a week and get used to seeing everyone, then eventually opening the gate to let them mingle.
Below is the coop/yard where they are now. I'm thinking I could move Cinderella and the poults back there b/c it has a 2x6 around the base and the poults would just run into it and not worry about getting their heads stuck. Plus the floor of the coop is twice as large while I keep them in. I can put a ledge that only mamma can hop over to get out of house, leaving poults safely in until they are stronger and more ready.


Same pen, different angle:


And this new pen/house is where I currently have a buff orpington who is sitting on the newest batch of turkey eggs I ordered, with 3 weeks left still.


So, obviously you can tell I'm still trying to work it out in my head where she can still raise them ;-) I know she's a great mamma but she's not sure what to do with these goofy turkeys! I don't want to do the wrong thing - she obviously wants to raise them - but they keep sabotaging her desires. I specifically wanted a broody to raise them so they would integrate more smoothly with chicken flock and not be such outcasts.
Obviously I'll do what I have to do.
I raise chicks in the bathroom brooder every year. I can certainly do it with poults. But with chicks, I have at least 6 to keep each other company. I only have 3 poults, and not sure the 3rd one was meant to live :-(
Thank you so much for your help. Keep the advice - and encouragement! - coming

 

[SonnyGirl]

Hey... I actually have a turkey poult who got suddenly ill tonight, so I'm spending all my spare time with him. But I just wanted to say that 3 poults will keep each other company PLENTY good enough, especially up until around 5-6 weeks. They would not be lonely whatsoever. Except for maybe a Mommy/adult - which is where you would come in (until your chicken gets 'em back haha). And with the housing - yeah, that's a lot to mull over, lot of choices! I'll write back more a lil later... after I give my little turkey boy another round of attention!

 

[2overeasy]

Good morning, sonnygirl!
First, I hope your baby boy is alright. Is it something minor, I hope? Is he one of the poults you took from mamma?

So, as to my situation. kuntrygirl has also been giving me advice in PMs. The last msg from her simply stated that since I wasn't sure if she can raise them, what she would do is take them and that way I would know they were eating, drinking, growing, etc. She said - and very rightly so - that if I didn't and something went wrong, I would feel guilty. And I would: I'd feel like crap for doing the wrong thing despite the good advice I'd been given. So, instead of retyping everything I responded to here I'll just copy and paste it here! Your thoughts?...
"Thanks. I really appreciate and value your candid response. I really want the hen to raise them simply because I don't want to go through the pain of raising chicks again But I guess my biggest concern is what I've read about getting turkeys to roost in a house, and getting chickens to accept them as part of the flock.
I just heard back from my friend, Elijah, too. He says, "She probably can raise them. IF you keep a frequent and close eye on her. The thing is, they won't respond to her motherly training like chicks would, so you may have to help them along a bit. Remember, they're pretty much "stupid" until they are nearly adults!"
The thing is, Julie, that for 6 months before getting these eggs I did exhaustive research, reading everything I could get my 'hands' on - mother earth news, the forum here, ALBC, and other websites on turkeys.
And NO ONE, I mean no one, said anything about this. Even when I directly asked the question on the forum.
What the hen is doing that I think is interesting is she is still willing to stay inside with them and just sit - even though it's 4 days after the hatch. The hen always pitches a fit to get out with her babies immediately after the hatch is complete. But not her. It makes me think that maybe she "knows" that these chicks are different. I've read so many stories about the amazing and surprising things mamma hens will do that seem different from type.
But, I suppose, I'm just projecting those human qualities again - and perhaps wishing it to be true.
The hard fact is that I need to take them. I need to listen to the four turkey "experts" - I mean, I did ask, didn't I?
I'm going to take them today, and give her a few of the chicken eggs that the 2 other broodies are sitting on so she has babies in another week to raise.
And I'm sure it can be frustrating to give advice to someone who doesn't listen, right? ;-)
Thank you, and I'll keep you posted on my new bathroom babies!"

 

[2overeasy]

So, here's the update, Sonnygirl:
After extensive conversations with you, kuntrygirl, my friend, Elijah, and a local man I called who raises Standard Bronze and a few breeds of chickens, I'm going to buy 5 3-day old Langshan chicks from him. I will bring them home and put them in the bathroom brooder. Tonight, well after dark, I'll take 3 chicks out to Cinderella's maternity ward, and switch 3 poults for 3 chicks.
This solves 3 problems:
1) Hen still has babies to raise so that she's not sad :-(
2) poults are raised in a safe environment where I know they'll have the best care, and
3) they have chicks to show them how to behave.

Now I just have to go through this all again in 3 weeks when Buffy hatches out her poults (sigh...) ;-)

Your advice, encouragement, and candid responses have been greatly appreciated! Thank you