Help with chicken diet

[Weeg]

Then, because if the heat, the heavier birds just don’t like to move around much in the summer months. I love her so much and I just want to find away to keep her safe without hurting the other girls

Could you try a mister system? I don't have much experience with heat, but maybe a mister system would be beneficial.

 

[AZDesertChick]

We have tried that. What’s actually more effective is a portable evaporative cooler (which makes it more comfy for us to hang out with them too) and ice packs. We found these great 10 inch x 14 inch slim packs that we freeze and stick in old pillowcases (that during the winter we use to cover plants ). The girls LOVE the ice packs so much they try to climb on to them before they even hit the ground.

 

[AZDesertChick]

I think that all your other hens need to be free fed, esspecailly the older ones. If they're becoming aggressive around meal time, than that means that they are hungry, plus the weight loss is a concern.
Do you feed any scratch grains, corn, or mealworms? I know that BR's are multipurpose breeds, but they shouldn't gain so much weight just off of layer feed. Nor should you be loosing hens to fatty liver disease.
When you pick her up, can you feel her keel bone, or is it covered by fat/tissue? That is the best way to determine body weight. It should feel like a "triangle" of tissue coming down from the keel. Thats the preferred weight. How much does this BR weigh?

I think I messed up and posted this without it actually being a reply. Sorry. Still learning this platform.

Here was my post: She weighs around 3kg, which I know is within the normal range. BUT… while her keel feels ok, what we learned in losing the other girl (a Buff Orpington) is that keel feel is no longer a good indictator of body condition because domestic chickens just don’t fly much. There are better places (inside thigh, low abdomen near the vent, and under the crop) that are better indicators of being overweight and at risk for fatty liver. When we lost our Buff, we were able to get her to the vet within 15 min of her collapsing. They did everything they could but she just couldn’t be saved. We had them do a necropsy, so the diagnosis is indisputable. The vet (and these are exotic animal, including chicken, specialists) said she would not have considered our Buff overweight because it was not evident in her keel. So she reached out to an avian specialist vet at one of their offices and that’s when we learned there are better places to feel fatty deposits. I’ve had them try to teach me how to feel for body condition but weight is still the easier and more reliable indicator. We lost a Barred Rock suddenly the year before (we weren’t home then it happened) but I’m pretty sure it was the same issue. We used to give them occasional mealworms, but I’ve cut that out because of the fat content. The biggest issue is that we have a small urban yard, so the run area is about 130 square feet. We try to let them out a little but we have so many predators here, it’s really risky. Then, because if the heat, the heavier birds just don’t like to move around much in the summer months. I love her so much and I just want to find away to keep her safe without hurting the other girls.

 

[Weeg]

I think I messed up and posted this without it actually being a reply. Sorry. Still learning this platform.

Here was my post: She weighs around 3kg, which I know is within the normal range. BUT… while her keel feels ok, what we learned in losing the other girl (a Buff Orpington) is that keel feel is no longer a good indictator of body condition because domestic chickens just don’t fly much. There are better places (inside thigh, low abdomen near the vent, and under the crop) that are better indicators of being overweight and at risk for fatty liver. When we lost our Buff, we were able to get her to the vet within 15 min of her collapsing. They did everything they could but she just couldn’t be saved. We had them do a necropsy, so the diagnosis is indisputable. The vet (and these are exotic animal, including chicken, specialists) said she would not have considered our Buff overweight because it was not evident in her keel. So she reached out to an avian specialist vet at one of their offices and that’s when we learned there are better places to feel fatty deposits. I’ve had them try to teach me how to feel for body condition but weight is still the easier and more reliable indicator. We lost a Barred Rock suddenly the year before (we weren’t home then it happened) but I’m pretty sure it was the same issue. We used to give them occasional mealworms, but I’ve cut that out because of the fat content. The biggest issue is that we have a small urban yard, so the run area is about 130 square feet. We try to let them out a little but we have so many predators here, it’s really risky. Then, because if the heat, the heavier birds just don’t like to move around much in the summer months. I love her so much and I just want to find away to keep her safe without hurting the other girls.

I did read that post, seems like you have a great vet/avian specialist to work with. Have you taken this particular hen to the vet and asked about risk of fatty liver disease? I get that there may be better areas to check for weight, but I don't think that a scale is going to lie. BR's aren't bred to eat so much they gain so much weight, but if its an option, that would be a great thing for your vet to decide.
I don't have a ton of experience here, just going off the top of my head.
@Kiki has lots of experience with feed, and I may very well be wrong. Maybe she has some input.

 

[AZDesertChick]

I'm not going to argue with a veterinarian, but lots of experienced members on this site say to measure weight by the keel. More importantly, if her weight is average, than why are you concerned? If you aren't feeding mealworms/fatty foods, than why are you concerned about fatty liver disease?
If you didn't do a necropsy on the last hen you lost, it may have been sometime different. Especially if you cut out mealworms.
If this hen is acting healthy, weight is normal, and keel feels fine, I personally don't think you have any reason to be concerned. I would just free feed them all.
Interested to see what other members say though.

We lost two birds, two years in a row. The first was a Barred Rock and it happened while we were running errands. But it was sudden with no signs of anything wrong (typical of fatty liver). She had no respiratory issues, no mites, and I know she wasn’t egg bound because she had just laid that morning (which can also precipitate a fatty liver death). The second one was a Buff Orpington and we did get a necropsy and no for certain it was fatty liver. Plus she had no obvious keel weight issues but did have excess fat around her lower abdomen. We had the Barred Rock checked out after the Orpington died and the vet put her body condition at 6 on a 1 (very underweight) to 9 (very overweight) scale. We got her weight down a little, but then she quit laying over the winter and her weight went back up. We got her checked again and her body condition was moved to 7 out of 9. These aren’t just chickens, they’re pets. We love them very much and I don’t want to lose another one prematurely. She’s just a week shy of two years old. The other two we lost before they turned 1.

 

[Weeg]

These aren’t just chickens, they’re pets. We love them very much and I don’t want to lose another one prematurely. She’s just a week shy of two years old. The other two we lost before they turned 1

Got it, I didn't know that your hen had gone to the vet, my bad.
I understand that they are pets, so are mine, I love them to death.
Hopefully your able to figure out how to keep her separated and get the correct amount of feed to them all. Hopefully more experienced members will pop in soon.

 

[AZDesertChick]

I did read that post, seems like you have a great vet/avian specialist to work with. Have you taken this particular hen to the vet and asked about risk of fatty liver disease? I get that there may be better areas to check for weight, but I don't think that a scale is going to lie. BR's aren't bred to eat so much they gain so much weight, but if its an option, that would be a great thing for your vet to decide.
I don't have a ton of experience here, just going off the top of my head.
@Kiki has lots of experience with feed, and I may very well be wrong. Maybe she has some input.

We did have her liver function tested and it was ok at that time, but I don’t want to have to drag her to the vet and get a blood draw in a regular basis if I don’t have to. I do know her body condition has declined (on the overweight side) in the past year.

I’ve noticed she just seems to be super food focused - almost obsessed. She feeds MUCH more frequently than the others. And she whines A LOT when she thinks there is a possibility of treats. And she whines even more if we give others treats but not her. I’m not any kind of expert either but it really does feel like she has an unhealthy relationship with food.

 

[AZDesertChick]

Got it, I didn't know that your hen had gone to the vet, my bad.
I understand that they are pets, so are mine, I love them to death.
Hopefully your able to figure out how to keep her separated and get the correct amount of feed to them all. Hopefully more experienced members will pop in soon.

Thanks. I’m at a loss, but just kicking this back and forth with you guys is helping me think outside the box a bit more. I’ll try some other things and just keep monitoring them all.

 

[Weeg]

And she whines even more if we give others treats but not her. I’m not any kind of expert either but it really does feel like she has an unhealthy relationship with food.

Poor girl, that must be rough. How unusual for a BR though. This sounds like my Doodle who is a Cornish X. She really got the short end of the stick with the food motivation thing.

 

[aart]

In the morning: organic Scratch and Peck layer (45g per chicken)

Midday: some chopped greens or watermelon chucks (we live in the desert to the extra hydration is important), then a non-GMO crumble (again, 45g per chicken)

Evening: we either let them graze on herb/lettuce pots with organic soil or, since there is always meal left behind from the Scratch and Peck, I take that and make a mash with some herbs, a little nutritional yeast (lots of B vitamins), and a little bit of wheat germ. I do the mash about twice a week.

What are the protein levels of the S&P and the crumble?
Is the S&P a cracked grain formula?