Help with Deworming Chickens

[tuesdaylove]

Hello everyone!

A couple weeks ago I brought home four pullets, who are now nearly five months old, and they live with a cockerel who is just over five months old. The pullets were all skinny and bedraggled-looking when I brought them home. Three of them have gained some weight and look noticeably better. One, an Easter Egger, is not growing nearly as fast as the others and doesn't have as good of an appetite. I was wondering what was going on, until yesterday I was looking at some of their poop under the roosts and found one spot with what appears to be a worm in it. I got a stick and fished it out, and it was about a three-inch worm (but I didn't actually measure it) and it seemed to be dead. I don't have a ton of experience with worms in any species but I guessed it to be roundworm. I've attached a picture in case anyone can confirm or deny this. You can see it towards the middle of the photo.

I knew one of the new pullets had had diarrhea since they arrived, but I didn't know which one, and this is the first worm I saw. Before I found that, I thought maybe it was just stress. So I still don't know which bird pooped the worm, but I could guess that it was the small EE, and I know that if one has worms the whole flock should be treated anyways.

I bought some Safe-guard paste last night -- fenbendazole 10%, 100mg/g -- as I figured if I bought the kind that mixes in water they might not drink enough for each bird to get a proper dosage. I just found out today after reading some BYC threads on the subject that it's important to give them a proper dosage and apparently this stuff can be pretty toxic to them if not done right.

I plan to dose them once or twice, whatever is needed to rid of the worms, then thoroughly clean their coop and run, add some DE to the ground, and I'll start giving them garlic powder in their food to see if it prevents future infestations at all. They already get ACV in all of their drinking water, and get electrolytes in their water occasionally.

What is the dosage for the paste? I keep seeing to use a "pea-sized amount" but is there anything more specific? I don't know the pullets' weights yet but I am going to weigh them before dosing.

Another thing: I read in one place that fenbendazole is dangerous to use in molting birds. My pullets have all looked ragged since they arrived, and I'm not sure if they're molting or just have damaged feathers from wherever they came from. Is there any reason I should wait before dosing them?

Thanks to everyone in advance. Y'all have been lifesavers for me and my chickens many times!

 

[Kiki]

The correct dose is 0.23 ml per pound per bird.
Can you weigh the birds?

 

[WVduckchick]

Hi! Great pic!

Maybe also post some pics of the birds, we might be able to tell if its molting or something else.

@casportpony

 

[tuesdaylove]

The correct dose is 0.23 ml per pound per bird.
Can you weigh the birds?

Yes, I have a regular scale meant for people but it's large enough I can get them to stand on it. I was going to weigh them right before de-worming, when I'll have some help catching them.

Hi! Great pic!

Maybe also post some pics of the birds, we might be able to tell if its molting or something else.

@casportpony

Thanks! I thought the photo nicely captured how insanely disgusting chicken poop is.

^this EE is the one who's not growing/eating well, who I suspect may be the wormy one

I know that some of the rough feathers on their backs are from the cockerel, who was a bit... well, excited to finally have girlfriends. Not sure why they have weird tails though.

 

[tuesdaylove]

Forgot to put this in my first post, but:

I have three flocks of chickens. One is this flock of standard-sized birds, and there's two flocks of bantams. They never interact directly but I do wear the same shoes to all runs so I assume there's some transfer of poop. Will all of my chickens need to be dewormed?

 

[casportpony]

It is true that you aren't supposed to use fenbendazole (Safeguard) or any other wormer in that class of wormers during a molt since it *might* cause abnormal growth of new feathers.

There are other wormers that treat large roundworms that one could try if they were worried about feathers.

• Pyrantel Pamoate
• Piperazine (Wazine)

The "pea size" amount of paste is a pet peeve of mine, and there are probably thousands of posts on the various forums and blogs that suggest that. The problem with all those posts is that people are just repeating what they read without thinking about the number of mg that are in a blob. That was bugging me, so one day I sat down with some paste, a scale, syringes, and I figured it out. One ml of paste weighs one gram, and one pea sized blob = 0.25 ml to 0.3 ml, which = 25 mg to 30 mg.

As for the toxicity of fenbendazole, you should know that it is the safest of the wormers in that class, so don't worry too much about getting an exact weight/dose.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Hi.

Yes, wormer can be very hard on molting or otherwise weakened birds. Your ladies aren't molting and probably have ragged feathers due to flock dynamics.

Also, diarrhea does NOT mean worms... I got a float test that proves it. Of course that worm in the poo does, though.

Don't spend time chasing your birds... wait until they go to roost and then use a flash light and keep it dim. Remove each bird from roost and do what you need then replace them back. No chasing!

I would also recommend checking for crawly skin parasites at that time. Part the feathers near the vent and abdomen and with your flashlight look for things running away (lice, mites, whatever). Also pay attention to ANY clumps near the base of the feathers. I confused with stuck on dirt in the beginning but have since learned they were egg clumps.

Wish to note that not all species of worms can be seen in droppings. Only round worms and tape worms can and usually only under heavy load. Others stay in the intestines and only their microscopic eggs will pass in the droppings. In addition, not all parasites will be seen on the bird because there are some microscopic species of those in addition to the ones that don't live on them (but in cracks of wood) and only come out to feed at night. So a couple hours after dark is a good time to check for those.

Some birds have better immune systems to fight off things. So even among the flock where you spotted the worms... they may not ALL have them... but it is still important to treat all of them, I think... since it really is a flock thing. The new birds you got may have been slightly weakened from their move. And with the feather quality it indicates possible over crowding or inadequate nutrition (could be from worms, parasites, or feeding ignorantly).

Shoes don't transfer worm in MY opinion. In fact some of those worms (sorry I don't know which one) will come from eggs that are laid on standard earth worm and when the earth worm is ingested, those eggs hatch and proliferate inside the intestine. Garlic won't do crud to "prevent" worms. But it could alter the flavor of your eggs and even make them have a mottled or weird look to their yolk.

I personally hate DE and think it's over rated. At LEAST you aren't trying to use to actually worm though. (Studies show it doesn't worm for internal parasite.) I'll take my risk with things in the ground instead of risking my whole flock, myself, or my family... with inhalation, regardless of silica or none.. no micro cutting shard for us.

They do look a little ragged... but not actually THAT bad. I don't see signs of scaly leg mite. Eyes and combs look good. Out of those breeds I see... Easter Eggers are the smallest of them, in my experience. They also aren't usually very high in the pecking order. So this may have an impact on the growth and development you should expect to see. And the feather damage doesn't look like what I expect to see from heavy parasite load either, but flock dynamics as I know I already stated.

Good luck with treatment.

Looks like a lovely group of chooks!

 

[pvaldes]

Looks like a roundworm, but key features are partially covered in stool so we can't discard an acanthocephalan. Genus or family are impossible with the current info.

 

[tuesdaylove]

It is true that you aren't supposed to use fenbendazole (Safeguard) or any other wormer in that class of wormers during a molt since it *might* cause abnormal growth of new feathers.

There are other wormers that treat large roundworms that one could try if they were worried about feathers.

• Pyrantel Pamoate
• Piperazine (Wazine)

The "pea size" amount of paste is a pet peeve of mine, and there are probably thousands of posts on the various forums and blogs that suggest that. The problem with all those posts is that people are just repeating what they read without thinking about the number of mg that are in a blob. That was bugging me, so one day I sat down with some paste, a scale, syringes, and I figured it out. One ml of paste weighs one gram, and one pea sized blob = 0.25 ml to 0.3 ml, which = 25 mg to 30 mg.

As for the toxicity of fenbendazole, you should know that it is the safest of the wormers in that class, so don't worry too much about getting an exact weight/dose.

Thank you! I'd seen your many posts about deworming around the forums and was hoping you'd post. Is the paste easily drawn up into a syringe? I have some so I can definitely do that.

Hi.

Yes, wormer can be very hard on molting or otherwise weakened birds. Your ladies aren't molting and probably have ragged feathers due to flock dynamics.

Also, diarrhea does NOT mean worms... I got a float test that proves it. Of course that worm in the poo does, though.

Don't spend time chasing your birds... wait until they go to roost and then use a flash light and keep it dim. Remove each bird from roost and do what you need then replace them back. No chasing!

I would also recommend checking for crawly skin parasites at that time. Part the feathers near the vent and abdomen and with your flashlight look for things running away (lice, mites, whatever). Also pay attention to ANY clumps near the base of the feathers. I confused with stuck on dirt in the beginning but have since learned they were egg clumps.

Wish to note that not all species of worms can be seen in droppings. Only round worms and tape worms can and usually only under heavy load. Others stay in the intestines and only their microscopic eggs will pass in the droppings. In addition, not all parasites will be seen on the bird because there are some microscopic species of those in addition to the ones that don't live on them (but in cracks of wood) and only come out to feed at night. So a couple hours after dark is a good time to check for those.

Some birds have better immune systems to fight off things. So even among the flock where you spotted the worms... they may not ALL have them... but it is still important to treat all of them, I think... since it really is a flock thing. The new birds you got may have been slightly weakened from their move. And with the feather quality it indicates possible over crowding or inadequate nutrition (could be from worms, parasites, or feeding ignorantly).

Shoes don't transfer worm in MY opinion. In fact some of those worms (sorry I don't know which one) will come from eggs that are laid on standard earth worm and when the earth worm is ingested, those eggs hatch and proliferate inside the intestine. Garlic won't do crud to "prevent" worms. But it could alter the flavor of your eggs and even make them have a mottled or weird look to their yolk.

I personally hate DE and think it's over rated. At LEAST you aren't trying to use to actually worm though. (Studies show it doesn't worm for internal parasite.) I'll take my risk with things in the ground instead of risking my whole flock, myself, or my family... with inhalation, regardless of silica or none.. no micro cutting shard for us.

They do look a little ragged... but not actually THAT bad. I don't see signs of scaly leg mite. Eyes and combs look good. Out of those breeds I see... Easter Eggers are the smallest of them, in my experience. They also aren't usually very high in the pecking order. So this may have an impact on the growth and development you should expect to see. And the feather damage doesn't look like what I expect to see from heavy parasite load either, but flock dynamics as I know I already stated.

Good luck with treatment.

Looks like a lovely group of chooks!

Thank you!

I didn't mean to make it sound like they're that hard to catch, they're tame! My bantams, however, are another story. I couldn't catch them alone if my life depended on it. The big ones are pretty easy to catch, but I'm waiting for a friend to come this afternoon just because it'll be easier than me trying to hold them/weigh them/pry beaks open/measure meds/give meds/calm angry birds. I will check them out for external parasites tonight.

The feathers could be from overcrowding. I bought them at a chicken show and they had about twenty pullets per small dog crate, they were very crowded.

I was given a bag of DE so I figured I may as well use it. I probably won't buy more, I'd rather just work on keeping everything in the coop/run clean.

I knew Orps and Rocks were big birds, so it doesn't surprise me that they're huge. The black sex link is getting pretty big too, but I don't know much about them, or EEs. Hopefully she's just meant to be kinda small.

Looks like a roundworm, but key features are partially covered in stool so we can't discard an acanthocephalan. Genus or family are impossible with the current info.

Roundworms are really common here, especially in dogs, so I'm hoping that's it.

 

[casportpony]

Thank you! I'd seen your many posts about deworming around the forums and was hoping you'd post. Is the paste easily drawn up into a syringe? I have some so I can definitely do that.

I just squirt from the paste syringe into the plunger end of the smaller syringe.