Help with EYP or Ascites?

[speckledhen]

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Hello! Advice needed! Not sure if my hen has EYP. Found her lethargic Wednesday night. So I separated her and next morning discovered her abdomen swollen and very hot. Drained fluid yellowish color about 200 cc. Gave her electrolytes in water. Next day she’s still not up and would always just lay down. Purple comb, open mouth. Gave her eggs, didn’t eat much. Friday abdomen is cooler so I didn’t drain fluid out. Saturday had to drained fluid again about 80cc. She’s drinking but not eating much. I did give her a soak and checked vent not egg bound. Sunday I went ahead and administered penicillin .50cc and drained about 50cc. I hope I’m not too late to give her antibiotic since it’s day 5 already! She has lost weight. Would only walk around and peck on food when I pressure her to, which I feel so bad. Offered yogurt and ignored it. Is there something I’m missing? Anything else I can do? No vet to see her. Please help! Also she always had problem with shell less eggs and soft shell eggs.

I'm going to tell you something that isn't pleasant. I've been there numerous times. There is nothing you can do for this hen. That's the long and sort of it. This condition is chronic. No matter what you do, draining, antibiotics, supportive care, she is terminal. A veterinarian is not going to help her, even if you had one. He might take your money but he would be lying if he said there was hope for her.

She is a production hen, very prone to this sort of malfunction. Trust me, I've lost probably 15 of them, plus a couple of good breeder quality hens, to egg yolk peritonitis, internal laying and/ or reproductive cancer, sometimes they all exist at once. Hatchery hens are the worst for it, sucky genetics. Breeder quality hens rarely die from this, at least in my own experience over the past 13 years. I now have 8,9,10, and 11+ year old hens since all my hatchery stock died off. None have this type of reproductive issue, though some have run out of eggs.

You're doing all you can, giving her good protein and love. I'm very sorry because I know all too well how you feel.

 

[speckledhen]

This is one reason we see this so frequently.

From the article:

http://www.nature.com/nrc/journal/v13/n6/full/nrc3535.html?foxtrotcallback=true

The domestic laying hen is the only non-human animal that spontaneously develops ovarian cancer with a high prevalence. Hens ovulate prolifically, and this has made the hen intuitively appealing as a model of this disease in light of epidemiological evidence that ovulation rate is highly correlated with the risk of human ovarian cancer

 

[Eggcessive]

I agree with Micstrahan in that I would not withdraw so much fluid without vet care. When you are draining so much fluid it helps relieve pressure, but you are making her shocky and weak. The electrolytes are good though. You cannot cure her condition whether it is egg yolk peritonitis, internal laying, cancer, or ascites from heart failure or as a secondary symptom of reproductive disease.

Speckledhen has a ton of experience with this, and she is an expert on these conditions. I would tend to make her as comfortable as possible, offer foods she likes, and if she appears to be suffering, put her down. Antibiotics probably won’t help at this point, but that is up to you. These disorders are just so common in todays high production egg layers from hatcheries. It always hurts to lose one or have to put one down, but best not to let them suffer. Sorry that you are dealing with this.

 

[kevinmaysie]

I'm going to tell you something that isn't pleasant. I've been there numerous times. There is nothing you can do for this hen. That's the long and sort of it. This condition is chronic. No matter what you do, draining, antibiotics, supportive care, she is terminal. A veterinarian is not going to help her, even if you had one. He might take your money but he would be lying if he said there was hope for her.

She is a production hen, very prone to this sort of malfunction. Trust me, I've lost probably 15 of them, plus a couple of good breeder quality hens, to egg yolk peritonitis, internal laying and/ or reproductive cancer, sometimes they all exist at once. Hatchery hens are the worst for it, sucky genetics. Breeder quality hens rarely die from this, at least in my own experience over the past 13 years. I now have 8,9,10, and 11+ year old hens since all my hatchery stock died off. None have this type of reproductive issue, though some have run out of eggs.

You're doing all you can, giving her good protein and love. I'm very sorry because I know all too well how you feel.

I know! I was hoping there’s something else out there that could save her. But thank you. I have read a lot about it and it’s good to hear from someone who experienced it. I appreciate it.

 

[kevinmaysie]

Thank you everyone for you kinds words, opinions and suggestions! I guess I am doing what I can. I just hope she isn’t suffering as I can’t put her to sleep. My husband may call a vet here to help us to that but they don’t see poultry. It is hard loosing one of them. I have lost 2 already this year, one from an attack and one unknown. Now that I think of all the symptoms, one of them could have had eyp as well! I appreciate everyone’s time!

 

[kevinmaysie]

She looks thin in the photo. If she’s lost weight, has ascites, and lays soft and shell less eggs, I would suspect a laying disorder. When my girl had EYP, I think the antibiotic was Clavamox (Augmentin). The blue comb could be from the abdominal fluid restricting her breathing. Did it brighten up when you drained her? Also, be careful when draining. Too much can send them into shock. One avian Vet who drained my hen replenished fluids subcutaneously. She responded well (also had a second round of antibiotics at that point). Good luck.

Hello! The fluid didn’t brighten up at all and she’s still not acting normal. I’ve only given her durvet penicillin. I will look into which feed store carries it around me the ones suggested here. Thank you

 

[speckledhen]

I've only had one hen to rally several times, even begin laying again briefly, then die soon afterward. If you read here, Ivy in June that year had rallied after penicillin therapy, then by August, she was way down and it was close to the end for her. We drained her numerous times. She is the only one who ever recovered enough to lay an egg again, but it killed her anyway.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/my-ivy-latest-relapse-shes-gone.195347/
Ivy was a hatchery Barred Rock hen. Her "sister" died at 5 years old of reproductive cancer. It seems the ones who live to that age have cancer, with maybe a few small cheesy masses inside from internal laying/egg yolk peritonitis, while the ones who die from 2-3 years of age are the EYP/internal layers with huge masses of cooked infection and yolks in the oviducts and abdomen. You really get an education when you take a deep breath and open up that abdomen to see what happened.
I no longer drain hens unless there is a specific reason, like they are literally dragging their belly and their legs are splayed out, hindering walking. It never really helps beyond making them slightly more comfortable. Thankfully, I've not had to really think about that in years. Some very old hens may bloat slightly, then their bodies take care of it on their own, but those are my 9 and 10 year old hens and their time is close anyway.

 

[micstrachan]

@speckledhen, I asked this question about breeder vs. hatchery stock awhile back and don’t recall getting a clear answer. You sound very sure about the sucky genetics of hatchery stock. Is this from your own experience combined with reading scientific articles? I had a (hatchery NHR) hen who was just one year old when she developed EYP and died six months later. I did not want to believe she was terminal and tried everything (along with three avian vets) to help her. I have nine hatchery hens now, all different breeds, and worry at every little hint of not feeling well. If I get more chicks next year, I would consider breeder stock if I could figure out how to get them in California, but that would limit my options as far as breeds.I would love for my girls to live long like yours!

 

[kevinmaysie]

I've only had one hen to rally several times, even begin laying again briefly, then die soon afterward. If you read here, Ivy in June that year had rallied after penicillin therapy, then by August, she was way down and it was close to the end for her. We drained her numerous times. She is the only one who ever recovered enough to lay an egg again, but it killed her anyway.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/my-ivy-latest-relapse-shes-gone.195347/
Ivy was a hatchery Barred Rock hen. Her "sister" died at 5 years old of reproductive cancer. It seems the ones who live to that age have cancer, with maybe a few small cheesy masses inside from internal laying/egg yolk peritonitis, while the ones who die from 2-3 years of age are the EYP/internal layers with huge masses of cooked infection and yolks in the oviducts and abdomen. You really get an education when you take a deep breath and open up that abdomen to see what happened.
I no longer drain hens unless there is a specific reason, like they are literally dragging their belly and their legs are splayed out, hindering walking. It never really helps beyond making them slightly more comfortable. Thankfully, I've not had to really think about that in years. Some very old hens may bloat slightly, then their bodies take care of it on their own, but those are my 9 and 10 year old hens and their time is close anyway.

Thank you for sharing your experience. The more I read about the more I learn. I have read somewhere about getting a hormonal insert to stop laying. We do not have a vet that sees poultry nor I’ll have the extra money for it anyway. I have stopped giving her layer feed and switch her to chick feed. Hoping that’ll stop her from laying internally at least for now. But def her poop looks like it has eggs. I feel terrible. But she is hanging in there and I’d do anything to make her feel comfortable. She is very much loved. She is only 2 years and I started my flock when my father died. They fill a little bit of that emptiness.

 

[kevinmaysie]

@speckledhen, I asked this question about breeder vs. hatchery stock awhile back and don’t recall getting a clear answer. You sound very sure about the sucky genetics of hatchery stock. Is this from your own experience combined with reading scientific articles? I had a (hatchery NHR) hen who was just one year old when she developed EYP and died six months later. I did not want to believe she was terminal and tried everything (along with three avian vets) to help her. I have nine hatchery hens now, all different breeds, and worry at every little hint of not feeling well. If I get more chicks next year, I would consider breeder stock if I could figure out how to get them in California, but that would limit my options as far as breeds.I would love for my girls to live long like yours!

My NHR died the beginning of this year. After reading and reading threads and posts. I believe she died from EYP. All sya proms were the same. Except I did not catch the water belly. I am the same way worrying about every little hint!