Help with Poultry Lameness due to Bacterial - E. coli, Salmonella, Streptococcus or Enterococcus - Possibility?

[EggSighted4Life]

MY CHICKS ARE GONIG LAME AND (SLOWLY) DYING

Got new chicks (poults actually).

I had them 1.5 days
>>> and 2 died.

On the 2.5th Day
>>> 1 more died.
that night, noticed, lameness.

On the 3rd day
>>> 2 went lame, 1died.
1 of the 2 was suffering badly, we euthanized it.

They were ok for Saturday, and some of Sunday
and now Monday . . .
>>> 3 more are lame.

How old were they when you got them? Were they shipped? What are you feeding?

Have any photos of what they look like when they go lame before passing?

Possible it's simply failure to thrive/shipping stress?? This is my first suspect. How many birds did ya get total? Did your hatchery refund any that passed within (usually) the first 48-72 hours after you got them?

 

[shaneensmith]

How old were they when you got them? Were they shipped? What are you feeding?

Have any photos of what they look like when they go lame before passing?

Possible it's simply failure to thrive/shipping stress?? This is my first suspect. How many birds did ya get total? Did your hatchery refund any that passed within (usually) the first 48-72 hours after you got them?

Day olds when I got them.

Had them 1.5 days > 2 died

Next day > 1 more died (I wrote all this up top)

See pics.

 

[R2elk]

My temperature has been 95 as requested by the hatchery. I have never heard of a HOT SPOT - this is very interesting. So the rest of the room could be typical temperature or even an outside temperature, but so long as they have a "hot spot" to go under this is ok? I guess it would be similar to a turkey hen (as the hot spot) and being outside. So could I take them into my garage instead of my dining room? Thank you so much for your help.

ARTICLE I was referring too: https://bit.ly/3eBBwbU

95°F is too hot. I start my poults at 90°F and reduce it by 5°F per week. The temperature is measured at the bedding level. Having an air temperature of even 90°F will make the bedding too hot and can kill the poults.

My brooder is in my unheated coop. I have a GQF brooder heater on a PID temperature controller that maintains the bedding area under the heater at whatever temperature I set it at. Because it is in an unheated coop, I have a two bulb fixture above it. One bulb is a red heat lamp and one bulb is a daylight bulb. The heat lamp gets turned on for the nights and sometimes the days to make sure the entire brooder does not get too cold. If the heater is set for 90°F, I may try to maintain the rest of the brooder at 70°F to 80°F. As the heater temperature is reduced, I also reduce the whole brooder temperature.

The food and water should be kept in the cooler part of the brooder.

 

[R2elk]

Hello R2Elk.I did have infectious cryoza, from birds I got from someone (never doing that again). However, these chicks were not near that coop - I have many, and I have not had chickens for quite some time, and everything I own feeders etc, is either new or disinfected.

In order to get the best help possible, it helps to fully divulge all information whether you think it is relative or not.

 

[shaneensmith]

95°F is too hot. I start my poults at 90°F and reduce it by 5°F per week. The temperature is measured at the bedding level. Having an air temperature of even 90°F will make the bedding too hot and can kill the poults.

My brooder is in my unheated coop. I have a GQF brooder heater on a PID temperature controller that maintains the bedding area under the heater at whatever temperature I set it at. Because it is in an unheated coop, I have a two bulb fixture above it. One bulb is a red heat lamp and one bulb is a daylight bulb. The heat lamp gets turned on for the nights and sometimes the days to make sure the entire brooder does not get too cold. If the heater is set for 90°F, I may try to maintain the rest of the brooder at 70°F to 80°F. As the heater temperature is reduced, I also reduce the whole brooder temperature.

The food and water should be kept in the cooler part of the brooder.

I was told literally by the hatchery to have it at 95, then lower to 90 and so on, go down 5 degrees as necessary. How odd.

 

[R2elk]

I was told literally by the hatchery to have it at 95, then lower to 90 and so on, go down 5 degrees as necessary. How odd.

I have no doubt that is what they told you. I have been raising poults for a long time. I start mine at 90°F measured at the bedding temperature.

Porter's Rare Heritage Turkeys are professionals. They do not even mention a temperature to use in Porter's Poult Starting Tips.

 

[duluthralphie]

I was told literally by the hatchery to have it at 95, then lower to 90 and so on, go down 5 degrees as necessary. How odd.

Unlike R2elk’s I do start at 95, but I give them an area away from the heat/light where it might be 80 or lower. You will find they will self regulate the temps they want. Very few actually like the hot spot (95 degrees).



I also have chicks with my poults. They seem to be closer to the heat than the poults.

 

[shaneensmith]

AWAITING UPDATES FROM ANIMAL HEALTHCARE CENTRE. WILL POST UPDATED RESULTS AT THE TOP OF THIS FEED.

 

[shaneensmith]

RESULTS ARE IN!
** E-COLI INFECTION **
Point Of Entry Umbilicus - Early Mortality (Omphalitis)
aka "Mushy Chick Disease, Navel infection, Yolk Sac Infection" (it goes by many names)

My experience was as follows: Within 1 day of having day old poults - 2 died, then another, then 2 more, AND it happened quick!! They were only 1, 2 and 3 days old. Fine one moment, dead the next.

Symptoms I noticed: head down, seemed lethargic, still walking however some went lame with bilateral leg swelling, toenails turned black - then death.

Clinical Findings: Culture results are consistent with Bacterial Septicaemia "aka" Blood Poisoning from E-Coli as the cause of mortality. The umbilicus was the point of entry for this infection. There was an abundance of Escherichia Coli in the "retained yolk sac" of all specimens. Port of entry for E-Coli was the open umbilicus in all cases.

VET MANUAL INFORMATION > CLICK HERE

E-Coli is always present in poultry environments and a normal part of the intestinal microflora in poultry.

Infection with E. coli, and most other bacterial species associated with omphalitis, can occur when an opportunity arises such as:
#1: excess contamination of egg shells
#2: cracked hatching eggs
#3: open / unhealed navels at hatch and poor sanitation

EARLY MORTALITY OMPHALITIS IN POULTRY
https://www.poultryhealth.ca/early-mortality-omphalitis/

Because it happened so quickly at 1 and 2 days of age, it was the due to poor sanitization, poor quality, dirty hatching eggs it and was negligence at the hatchery.

 

[casportpony]

I'm very sorry for you losses. Thanks for sharing your necropsy results.