Hen health Mystery - she's out of ICU, but needs help recovering

[machomama]

Hello everyone!
I have been scanning the posts and files for the past week trying to find anything similar to our situation.

Problem started last weekend (over a week ago) when i noticed our most fulsome and healthy hen hanging out on the nest too long, and sleeping there - I thought she was going broody, so i shoved her off, and moved her to the roost for the night. She had trouble gripping the bar.
Within the next day or so she was lethargic, puffed up and moving slowly with her tail down - I thought egg bound.
First thing the next morning i put her behind in a large warm bath, blow-dried and kept her warm. Couldn't really feel anything in her belly, but like many others, didn't really exactly know what i was palpating, but felt nothing like an egg. No egg came out after that treatment.
I took her back outside to the run whereupon her brutish sisters immediately tried to take her out. I scooped up and put her back in the dry bin in the house.
She showed no interest in eating or drinking, so i got some pedialyte and began admin via beak capillary action. (I never figured out how to force it on her, except to squirt it in when she was panting - without choking her). Her eye were clear bright, comb of good color, and no weird breathing sounds or smells. Back to the forum...

Thursday we began contemplating euthanasia, but my son said he would twist my head off if i did that to her.... Since we didn't wake up to a dead hen I made a recommended protein smoothie with olive oil, peanut butter, sunflower seeds, applesauce, yogurt and quite a few more recommended ingredients which i then squirted all over her beak and my dining room. She was not impressed, but i did figure out how to hold open her beak by pulling down on her 'chin' skin to get a few more drops in her. I was worried about dehydration and exhaustion , so droppered water/pedialyte into her every 3 -4 hours during the day.

Friday she still could not walk more than a few steps with out collapsing in a panting heap and steadying herself with an outstretched wing to the ground. She was very interested in lettuce, so i dipped leaves in the protein shake, kind of like a thai-wrap with peanut sauce.

Saturday morning she was still alive, AND she began drinking water on her own, but she was incredibly weak; I kept poking her with the pedialyte, and trying to find things she would eat. Mostly she just stayed in the bin resting since it exhausted her even to stand - panting and collapsing.

Sunday not much change but on Monday (yesterday) she sucked some cut up grapes like nothing. I put a bench across a corner of the room with a blanket under her and her former bin on its side with hay. Found some red wigglers in my worm bin and she sucked those down as well. She refused to be pedialyted, but walked over to a water dish on her own to drink.

By this evening,her tail was up and she walked all the way across the yard without panting and collapsing in a heap, scratched, and did chickeny things, but still quite tired out.

I am glad for all of us she is on the mend, but am baffled as to what the problem was. She is still really not interested in scratch, seeds, pellets, so i will fetch some eating worms, but in order to get her back outside with her sisters, she needs to be much stronger. Wondering if it is too soon to de-worm her - I have never done this and might explain the thinness of her sisters -

Thank you in advance if you make it through reading all this - I'm am quite sure we would never have made it this far without this marvelous forum - THANK YOU!!!

1) What type of bird , age and weight.-- Ameraucana, 2 yr, wt? (on the light side)
2) What is the behavior, exactly. - See above
3) Is there any bleeding, injury, broken bones or other sign of trauma. - None
4) What happened, if anything that you know of, that may have caused the situation. - not a clue
5) What has the bird been eating and drinking, if at all. - See above
6) How does the poop look? Normal? Bloody? Runny? etc. - Dark Green tubules, with yellowish white ureates, runny
7) What has been the treatment you have administered so far? -see above
8 ) What is your intent as far as treatment? For example, do you want to treat completely yourself, or do you need help in stabilizing the bird 'til you can get to a vet? - I cannot afford a vet
9) If you have a picture of the wound or condition, please post it. It may help. - no pics
10) Describe the housing/bedding in use - enclosed coop with attached run, pine shavings in coop, straw/dirt in run. Urban backyard, coop changed weekly.
11) Normal rations are Layena pellets, scratch and black oil sunflower seeds supplemented with kitchen and garden scraps. Free to range under supervision for an hour or so daily.

 

[One Acre Wonder Farm]

Wow, you are a dedicated chicken parent and she is lucky to have you!

Not sure what could be the issue but she definitely sounds to weak to worm although it might be a good idea to worm the other girls.

I'm sure someone will come along with suggestions. Good luck! Keep us posted on her progress

 

[machomama]

Thanks One Acre!
Will do!

 

[purpletree23]

WOW! You are a super chicken mom. I agree with one acre wonder farm. She is too weak to worm but definately worm her sisters. She may have gotten so sick because she had a higher worm load then the others and as you know when a chicken is ill the others make their life heck and just make them feel worse.

Keep up the good work.....for extra protein try feeding scrambled egg. When my chickens were sick they loved it. Funny as it sounds cat food (not dog food) has protein from meats and is good to bulk up chickens. Give her 4 or 5 pieces twice a day. I use the cat food when mine are molting and need everything they can get.

Wishing you continued luck!

 

[machomama]

UPDATE:
chickie now hangs out all day in the house while i'm at work, greets me tail up and walks confidently (mostly) about the yard. However, she doesn't eat, not even the grapes. The only thing she wants is lettuce and grass and worms, and it seems to be moving right thru her without the grains and grit. Refuses the pedialyte dropper with great disdain now, and has mostly water and grass for excrement as a result.
She did hang out - supervised closely - with her hen sisters today for nearly an hour. One ignores her, the other 3 want to kill her, tho don't make any moves while i'm watching - kinda like little kids! She was strong enough to give herself a long dirt bath today, so that seems like big improvement to me. The lack of eating is worrisome, tho.
Could she have been poisoned and is trying to chelate it out?
Do i try again to force feed her now that she has more attitude?

 

[threehorses]

Hi there. Good job on getting your hen out of the woods. I have a few questions for you, if you don't mind. I'd like to help you get her through to the next phase.

What was her normal diet before exactly? How old is she? Do the hens have access to oyster shell? Do they have access to compost or many earthworms? When you feel her, does she feel skinny or fat to you? What was her laying history before?

First thing I'd like to mention is that if you want to tempt a bird with some protein try mealieworms (raised) or boiled or scrambled eggs. Earthworms are wonderful if they find them on their own, but we don't want to feed them more as they're a guaranteed source of parasites.

Second, until her droppings are normal and her eating as well I'd try putting her up in an area without grass (bedding instead) and proper food. I'm going to recommend a different vitamin to try to get her appetite to increase to normal.

Third, because she had digestive distress (and still does), you should replace the good bacteria that she's lost. The living bacteria in yogurt for example will help replace the good bacteria she lost with her diarrhea episode. You can try putting that on lettuce. I don't usually recommend lettuce as it causes diarrhea without giving any appreciable nutrition, but I know what you're using it: to get her to eat.

So continue but with yogurt and a crushed vitamin B-complex vitamin on it. B vitamins will increase appetite. Use vitamins/minerals/electrolytes in her water to make up for the nutrition she's not eating. Like Purple, I'd recommend eggs to try to get nutrition in her. IF she'll eat them you can hide stuff in them. You can even try parrot feeding formula (kaytee, exact, etc) on the lettuce as it contains nutrients and probiotics and minearls, etc - very concentrated feed source.

She also seems to like wet things - that's why I'd really use vitamins/minerals in her water.

You can try using NutriDrench for poultry to replace nutrients and it has an appetite encouraging B vitamin level. You could put that on the lettuce.

I also would recommend worming the flock. If you haven't wormed with a very strong wormer in over 6 months, I'd use Wazine in their water for one day (piperazine 17%). Then in 2-4 weeks I"d go back and worm with fenbendazole (SafeGuard 10% horse or goat paste or solution), Ivermectin 5% pour-on for cattle (PM for the dosage - get the small generic 250ml bottle), Albendazole (Valbazen), Triple-action from Rooster Booster (requires no withdrawal, contains probiotics).

I personally would keep her up til she eats more normally. To reintegrate her into the flock, try taking the two most meek girls from the flock and putting them in with her. They're in her space - for two days. Then integrate all three of them back into the flock. The increased numbers keeps the hens from all ganging up on one hen. it confuses them. Also putting them back in at night helps as well.

****** Added: Just thought of something. Shred the lettuce, mix with wetted crumbles and yogurt and vitamin B complex crushed into it (as it's more B than polyvisol). Make her work to get the lettuce and accidentally ingest something that will actually nourish her.

 

[machomama]

Whew! Thanks Threehorses for weighing in. You are always So helpful!

Her normal diet before was Layena pellets, supplemented once in the morning with black oil sunfl seeds and scratch. Free access to grit and oyster shell. Access to very little compost with worms- very dry here this time of year. Free range in the yard for half hour or so daily. I had a flock block in there for the past month or so, but just removed it now that I have read more about it, and put in their free-range area for a short-term treat. Occasional kitchen scraps incl. pasta, bread, vege, fruit. She feels really skinny right now. Her laying history was regular semi-daily, good quality eggs (not thin or weird shells).

I will get some mealworms today. She refused boiled egg yesterday.

She is penned in my house with about 10 sq ft of moving around room on a moving blanket with some straw in the corner. Should I put down shavings as well?

Wazine is on the way with some "Manna ProGame" crumbles, rooster booster vitamins and electrolytes, and sulfur salve. (Several of her sisters have bare patches from rubbing on the fence and the one at the bottom of the pecking order has some issues with being pecked, and pecking herself. I have not seen any mite infestation and i also put some diatomaceous earth in their run where they dust bathe.)

Re: worming, phase 2 - You recommended "fenbendazole (SafeGuard 10% horse or goat paste or solution), Ivermectin 5% pour-on for cattle (PM for the dosage - get the small generic 250ml bottle), Albendazole (Valbazen), Triple-action from Rooster Booster (requires no withdrawal, contains probiotics)."
- I assume I choose ONE of these products to do the deed?? Kinda confused.

For the crushed B vitamin - are these vitamins for humans and at what mg level? From our health food store, rather than a livestock store? B complex 50mg sounds familiar.

I will make another order with NutriDrench added.

Any ideas as to what may have caused her condition?

Thanks again, Nathalie - you are great!!

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
Lol - yes - one of those worming products will do the deed - I just gave you some options.

Different stores carry different wormers. If you're giving the rooster booster stuff, the nutridrench shouldn't be needed but it is a very nice product to have around for emergencies or just "tune ups". The B vitamins, yes - human tablets. You can find them at a drug store or walmart, too. You might be thinking of B12. That's a good one for vigor, endurance, and appetite. But a "complex" will have B12, Niacin, Biotin, all the different B's. It's a good one to have around if you ever have younger birds, too - with curled toes, etc.

I'm most concerned about the compost pile and lots of worms. Worms are a sure-thing carrier of parasite worms. Compost piles are sources of botulism. Because of the heightened risk of parasites, maggots, and thus botulism, I think I would fence that in (just even wire around it without posts helps) to keep them from having such easy access to it..

And because of their ability to get lots of worms, I would definitely do the wazine first and then 2-4 weeks later follow up with the broad spectrum (one of the mentioned ones). Just for reference sake, I'd weight or handle the birds before - write it down somewhere - and then in 2 weeks check them again, see if you don't see increases in weight.

Interesting about the flock-block! I saw that and thought "hmmm" it looked like such a good idea but then again I thought something sitting out could go bad - and I decided against it. I think I'm going to go back and look more at it. I'd love to hear what you read about it. Interesting.

Her diet sounds awesome. Does she take the oyster shell do you think? I wonder if spraying their feed once or twice weekly with cod liver oil wouldn't increase the D and fats and maybe help her - after the worming? The vitamin A would be nice, too.

I'd think too maybe once you get them wormed, supplement their protein a bit. I find protein puts more condition on them than does scratch, which really isn't much of a supplement - it's more of an anti-supplement because it's low protein and lower quality grains used to get them to scratch around. It's a handfulls treat but a great one to spoil the birds and just make them happy. BOSS is awesome incidentally. I really need to remember to buy some next time I get my feed.

Good on mealworms. Weird on the egg - go figure. And yes - I'd use shavings. Actually I find shavings on straw isn't a bad way of going, though otherwise I really don't like straw having used it many a time. (We have beautiful clean dry hay here as I require it for my horses but sadly it doesn't make what I consider a hygienic bedding - or at least not compared to shavings. Don't buy pet quality - you'll overspend.

Horse people (myself included) are sticklers on bedding because of spores, dryness, mildew, dust, etc because horses are very prone to respiratory problems which decrease their performance. Someone said we're "fanatics" (which made me laugh because we are - it was so very true). But that serves the chicken coop well!.

Hmmm Manna ProGame. I'm coming to YOUR feedstore as you're gtting all the good stuff!

Be sure the ProGame has at least a 7:1 cal/phos ration with at least 4% calcium. The calcium/phos levels on the tag should read something close to this:

Calcium, not less than 3.25%
Calcium, not more than 4.25%
Phosphorus, not less than 0.5%

How do you like the sulfur salve by the way? I use a sulfur-based wound dressing for horses (nitrofurazone) and it's really great. I had been tempted by the Sulfur Salve for the chickens just to have around.

Incidentally, if you can get the rooster booster products, you might just try their Triple Action wormer initially. It looks pretty interesting. I can't personally recommend it from use, but I liked what I saw (even though it has bmd in it). It looks well designed.

I think your chickens might eat better than I do.

 

[machomama]

Wow- Thanks again-
Got the mealworms tonight - ewww- the big ones!
How many make an anorexic's meal?
What happens to them in transit through her system without grit to grind 'em up? I am going to have nightmares about them - had to cover their jar with a paper- gives me the creeps!
I will mix some baby parrot food for breakfast and put on her 'lips'.
Her sisters are getting all her rejects...and they are loving it.
I thought chickens wouldn't starve themselves...
weird.
Thanks again for all your wonderful support - This is my first real health issue in two years - so much to learn!

 

[machomama]

So this morning for breakfast he suffered me squirting alot of baby parrot feed (3 vials) down her gullet topped off with two meal worms for dessert.
What is BOSS?
Have a good day!