Hen limping , lethargic, watery poop.

[jsr5]

heading out shortly and yeah I wanted to have plenty. We have a fair sized flock 50 full size and 30 pllus bantams so I'm sure it won't be the last time needed. I'm trying to build a good kit in the end to cover about everything. Need to get all the good info off of here compiled into a book to keep in the kit. Ok so off to town to have some fun

 

[jsr5]

Wife went to town for me so no fun with the clerks. And also no Calcium gluconate in our town and any vets that had it say they have to come out and cha ching $200 so I ordered it from amazon say one day delivery for 12 dollars. and it's a 500 ml bottle hope it stores well. Have the personal lube though so will give it a go tonight hate that the poor girl is poorly for so long.

 

[Ebony Rose]

Calcium supplements that contain bone meal or dolomite should be avoided as they may contain toxic substances such as lead and mercury. Otherwise, crushed calcium supplements intended for humans can be bought from your local grocer or pharmacy and added to yogurt or scrambled eggs or other tasty treat to boost her calcium.

 

[jsr5]

OK did another exam with the proper lubricant (I waited till tonight to do another so as not to over stress her and do it when I had the right "tools" for the job. Anyway there is no egg to be found in about 2 inches of the oviduct I could easily reach without pushing harder than I thought prudent and nothing hard in the region except the back bone. Ok so after that she had her soak and I gently scrubbed her feet she seems better than before as far as feet go but no where near healed. And afterwards I held her and fed her yogurt with chick starter crumbles and omega 3 in it then as usual she made herself comfortable and roosted on me until I got the poop and she was dry enough to go back to the brooder for the time being anyway I got pics of the poop and of the feet so I can get more expert oppinion at this point I think I"m going to start a round of Corid as well since I was able to find it the other day and have a supply. and here are the long awaited pics. Would have been sooner but this evening when I went to close up the run and collect eggs I found one of our girls hanging by one toe poor girl got tangled in one of the treat strings we have out there we had recently rearranged and put nest boxes under one she musta got it tangled and hung herself when she jumped off. So anyway before I could get to little red I had to spend time getting Gertie (newly named as Gertie my Turdie birdie ) rehydrated with the nutridrench stuff and fed all the pellets and worms we could get in her. Her leg was staedily improving and I have hopes she may rejoin the flock in the morning she can at least keep it under her to sleep by the time we were done. Geeze these girls are gonna kill me with all this stuff.

poops very wet it soaked right through the towel and my tshirt almost instantly.

her right is obviously more puffy and feels way more firm than the other. The black stuff doesn't wash off. could it be old frost bite? or bumble foot. ?

 

[jsr5]

If you look close at the puffier foot you can see a small scab where I have already removed one of the hard black spots in hopes of discovering a core or a puss pocket that could be drained. is is softer there now but still fairly firm I stopped and tried to express out puss when I started getting blood. I got only some thin looking blood no puss.

 

[Ebony Rose]

Looks to be bumblefoot. Did you soak those feet in warm water or warm epsom salt water for 20 minutes or so before trying to remove the core? Here's a short youtube on how to perform the surgery DIY... https://www.google.com/search?clien...ow&q=diy+bumblefoot+surgery+chicken#kpvalbx=1

 

[jsr5]

Ok just not what I was expecting for a core I suppose. wish I had a biopsy cutter they are on a amazon list but again they havent made it to the top of the budget yet. Yes she has had several epsom salt soaks. I was hoping to just soak out whatever it was. so I will plan on a surgery then. Do ya think both feet or just the swwollen one and maybe just de callus the other? seperate operations for sure.

 

[ChickNanny13]

Green poop is possibly due to dehydration, see if you can wet her food to make a mash & get her to eat. Or even try some Nutri Drench, vitamin & electrolytes for poultry. The black spot under her right foot pad does look like bumble foot. Wear gloves when messing with it, it's a staph infection. Think the other larger on maybe too although it's not swollen, can't figure out what those "veins" leading from it is.

This is from my Bumble Foot notes ...
Soak (10 - 20 minutes) in Epsom Salt bath, remove plug, treat (keratin softners; petroleum jelly, AD ointment) wrap. Green Epsom Salt poultice to draw out the core. You apply on foot, semi loosely wrap with gauze and vet wrap secure, if bird is loose put some duct tape to keep secure/dry. Change dressing every 2 days. Can take up to 3 months to resolve and yes that’s tedious work. It will save the bird. Make sure pens are clean not lots of manure around. Tricide Neo - <1T/gal distilled water (solution good for 5days), soak 5 - 7 minutes 2x day, dry foot put Neosporin, wrap.

ARTICLE: December 13, 2015 by Melissa
Supplies for Non-surgical Bumblefoot Treatment, Tilly’s Nest/FB
Here is what you will need to help your chickens with bumblefoot:

• Bath Towel
• Clean kitchen sink
• Gloves
• Epsom Salt
• Neosporin or Duoderm Gel
• Vetericyn
• Duoderm GFC (available online or at your local medical supply store)
• Vet Wrap
• Medical Tape

Treatment Plan for Chickens with Bumblefoot
Fill the sink with about a gallon of warm water and add Epsom salt to create a bath that even you would like to soak in.

Then wrap your chicken in the bath towel; being sure to wrap the wings securely and leaving her feet out. The towel will help keep her calm and also allow you to do the treatment all alone without any helpers.

Next soak your chicken’s feet in the Epsom salt bath for 10 minutes. This helps to loosen up the plug that had built up. The plug is actually comprised of dead tissue and other exudate from inside the foot that develops on the pad of the foot when it attempts to heal. The black “scab” is called eschar. In people sometimes we leave them alone and other times we soften the eschar and remove it gently in order to speed up the healing process.

In bumblefoot, the eschar can vary in size. They are hard but soften beautifully with a nice good soaking. This allows you to work on the plug in a non-surgical manner without this use of a scapel.

A view from above- the bigger one is pencil eraser sized.
Next with a gloved hand gently try to work the plug from around the edges of the eschar on the bottom of your chicken’s foot. If it is not ready do not force it. You don’t want it to bleed. Simply return to soaking for another 5-10 minutes. Give it time and be patient.

The plug should release with a bit of manipulation. It should not bleed, but if it does, don’t worry. Apply a bit of pressure to the bottom of the foot for a few minutes. It will stop.

The goal is to have to plug release naturally without much trauma because right underneath the plug is healthy tissue already working to heal the foot. When that bed of healthy tissue is damaged or cut into you are actually taking steps backwards in the body’s healing process.

The underside of the kernels. No blood just nasty soft tissue from the body trying to heal itself. The tissue on the foot pad looks nice and healthy.
Once the plug is removed, dry the foot completely and spray with Vetericyn. Allow it to air dry. While waiting give your girl some love. She is going to feel much better now.

Next apply a bit of Neosporin to the bottom of the foot pad. Instead of this you can also use Duoderm Gel to fill the wound. Next, cut a circle to fit the wound from the Duoderm GFC, center it on the wound to completely cover the wound edges and then wrap the foot pad with vet wrap. The vet wrap should be snug but tight. You don’t want to affect the circulation and blood flow to the foot. So the toes should be warm even once you apply the vet wrap. Put a bit of medical tape over the end to prevent it from coming undone. Phew, you did it!

Be sure to disinfect your work area and sink with a 10% bleach solution after you are done.

This girl should be separated for a bit from the others during healing. A diet of layer pellets is good, but supplement her with high protein snacks like meal worms and sunflower seeds to help her heal faster. Add some vitamins and electrolytes to the water too. Birds that are deficient in Vitamin A are more prone to developing bumblefoot. For her makeshift home, do not allow her to roost until healed and have a thick layer of pine shavings so her feet are comforted when walking. If she must roost, add a layer of padding by wrapping the roosts in towels to soften where she sits.

Change the bandage in the same fashion every few days or sooner as needed. Because of the Duoderm GFC you can change the bandage less frequently (you can even leave it on for a week if the bandages remain intact and the foot is showing no signs of infection). Also monitor for signs and symptoms of infection that can include warmth and redness at the site, foul smelling drainage from the wound and an overall sick appearance. If this occurs, a visit to the vet is probably necessary for some oral antibiotics and possible surgical wound treatment.

There are many reasons why chickens can get bumblefoot- from ill fitting roosts, small wounds, “splinter” like cuts, scrapes and trauma. It can also be from lack of Vitamin A and Niacin in the diet. For Lucy, I believe that it probably started with a cut or splinter during free-ranging.
_______________________________________________________________________
For mild cases of pododermatitis, changing to a softer substrate, exercise to increase blood supply to the foot, soaking the affected foot in warm water, and the use of keratin softeners (petrolatum jelly, A & D ointment, e.g.) may be all that's needed. The foot can also be soaked in a dilute chlorhexidine or iodine solution which are available in your local feed store. If there's a break in the skin, then soaking in a solution called Tricide-Neo with an antibiotic can speed healing Dr Michael Salkin

 

[Ebony Rose]

Great post @ChickNanny13 ! Sadly, most of the meds on the list cannot be obtained in my country, heck... I can't even get epsom salts unless I'm willing to pay 50 cents for less than 1/4 teaspoon! Pretty sure OP, @jsr5 can get them though, so good for him and his flock.

I cannot obtain

• Duoderm Gel
• Vetericyn
• Duoderm GFC

Online isn't an option, well, could be, but would be cost prohibitive after paying for the items, paying shipping to a US address, and shipping to forward to Panama, paying customs, paying a special tax on anything 'medicine-y', plus a $10 PER BOTTLE fee which includes some stranger opening each bottle, removing contents presumably for testing, and maybe-maybe not putting the stuff back in the bottle, AND risking the entire shipment being confiscated (without rhyme or reasons... one time a shipment will make it through, other times the same shipment won't), yet I still incur all the charges even if I never get my shipment...

So... I'm always keeping my eyes open for solutions that are possible HERE, for all of these things that could come up in my flock someday. I love learning how to do what needs to be done, with both hands tied behind my back, LOL!

@jsr5 the exacto knife shown in the video link I posted to you should do just as nicely as a scalpel in the meantime, and can be boiled to sterilize as they're made of metal (aluminum?). They're cheap at art stores or school supply departments at KMart, WalMart, Various drug stores, etc. Keep me updated please, I feel invested in the health of your hen

 

[jsr5]

The plug is actually comprised of dead tissue and other exudate from inside the foot that develops on the pad of the foot when it attempts to heal. The black “scab” is called eschar.

f it is not ready do not force it. You don’t want it to bleed. Simply return to soaking for another 5-10 minutes. Give it time and be patient.

The plug should release with a bit of manipulation. It should not bleed, but if it does, don’t worry. Apply a bit of pressure to the bottom of the foot for a few minutes. It will stop.

The goal is to have to plug release naturally without much trauma because right underneath the plug is healthy tissue already working to heal the foot. When that bed of healthy tissue is damaged or cut into you are actually taking steps backwards in the body’s healing process.

How did I miss these. Those descriptions make me understand what I was supposed to be looking for and what to do with it so much better I see now it is bumblefoot and that the firmness is actually what I was supposed to feel for bumblefoot. and the how to treat seems so much more clear I will actually be comfortable doing the surgery now.

@jsr5 the exacto knife shown in the video link I posted to you should do just as nicely as a scalpel in the meantime, and can be boiled to sterilize as they're made of metal (aluminum?). They're cheap at art stores or school supply departments at KMart, WalMart, Various drug stores, etc. Keep me updated please, I feel invested in the health of your hen

Thanks I actually have several sets of the exacto knives with all the different blades I got a long time ago when I was doing model rockets with my boys they are handy for a number of things and have been used for minor surgery in the past. But I have several hundred sterile scalpel blades and handles for them. I even have a "complete" medical tool kit for chickens I bought early on. so I"m pretty good there. Have you tried looking for alternate names of the brands that are listed perhaps they are available under different names? I thought way down south there it was supposed to be easier to find and buy medicines Sorry that that is apparently inccorect.

I'll plan to do surgery tomorrow if I recover was moving the cornish crosses we ended up with to the new meat bird coop and run I built over the last couple weeks. and took a pretty hard fall so I'm in no shape to work on lil red tonight. besides she is relaxed from last nights soak and treatments and enjoying the company of Gertie the acrobat on the not so flying trapese who has failed to recover as quickly as I had hoped will have to have another going over with her see if she needs some kind of joint support or splint made for her. These crazy chickens are driving me nuts and now I have a incubator stuffed full of eggs to hatch that we found a broody hiding from us. and I have 25 to go get in 12 days. Talk about being the crazy chicken guy. And the bad chicken math problem.