Hen lying on side, flexing legs (intestinal blockage?)

[KaseySnow]

The dark spots make it look like green june beetle larva, from what I can tell on google images. Hard to ID beetle grubs, as it turns out!

I'm actually curious where info can be found on Japanese beetles being toxic to chickens. I'm struggling to find anything about it online.

Edit: This was the best ID chart I could find, and you'd have to get pretty close to see the differences:

(I think these are the "raster" patterns (aka butt patterns) of each grub, haha)

Here's the page I got this from, might have some good info on identifying different kinds. https://extension.entm.purdue.edu/publications/E-271/E-271.html
maybe this one too: http://maria.fremlin.de/stagbeetles/larva-guide/

 

[azygous]

I apologize for this embarrassing mistake. My brain must have gone out for lunch and left me on my own to get into trouble. Japanese beetles are not poisonous to chickens. They can eat all they want. You want them to eat all they find because they are really bad for your garden.

Again, I apologize for this stupid mistake.

 

[yellowbttrflies]

The dark spots make it look like green june beetle larva, from what I can tell on google images. Hard to ID beetle grubs, as it turns out!

I'm actually curious where info can be found on Japanese beetles being toxic to chickens. I'm struggling to find anything about it online.

Edit: This was the best ID chart I could find, and you'd have to get pretty close to see the differences: View attachment 2618933
(I think these are the "raster" patterns (aka butt patterns) of each grub, haha)

Here's the page I got this from, might have some good info on identifying different kinds. https://extension.entm.purdue.edu/publications/E-271/E-271.html
maybe this one too: http://maria.fremlin.de/stagbeetles/larva-guide/

Haha - yes, identifying beetle grubs is a science all its own! It sounds like neither the June beetle, nor the figeater beetle are poisonous, so that's good news! It at least allows me to cross one thing off of the list of potential causes of my hen's condition. Thanks so much for the helpful chart for future reference.

 

[yellowbttrflies]

I apologize for this embarrassing mistake. My brain must have gone out for lunch and left me on my own to get into trouble. Japanese beetles are not poisonous to chickens. They can eat all they want. You want them to eat all they find because they are really bad for your garden.

Again, I apologize for this stupid mistake.

Interestingly when you mentioned this earlier this week, I found this article that indicates that Japanese beetles are poisonous to chickens (2nd to last sentence of the 1st paragraph). It seems to be from a reputable source. In any case, I think that I can safely say that in this particular incident, the beetle grub in question was not a Japanese beetle. https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/green-june-beetle-1

 

[KaseySnow]

Interesting that it says the japanese beetle grubs are poisonous! I wonder why they are but other white grubs aren't. Does that mean the grubs are but the adults aren't? Fascinating! I'm both confused and interested by this, I'll have to see whether I can find more info on it.

Like you said, glad to at least eliminate some possibilities of what's going on with her.

Regardless, I never would've even thought about poisonous insects if not for your warning and your story about the buck moth caterpillar, azygous. Thank you for sharing! I am now compiling a list of dangerous crawlies to keep an eye out for.

How is she doing, by the way? Any improvement? Were you able to do any kind of system flush in case of poison or get extra nutrients/ electrolytes into her?

 

[yellowbttrflies]

Interesting that it says the japanese beetle grubs are poisonous! I wonder why they are but other white grubs aren't. Does that mean the grubs are but the adults aren't? Fascinating! I'm both confused and interested by this, I'll have to see whether I can find more info on it.

Like you said, glad to at least eliminate some possibilities of what's going on with her.

How is she doing, by the way? Any improvement? Were you able to do any kind of system flush in case of poison or get extra nutrients/ electrolytes into her?

Thank you for asking about her! I gave her the electrolyte solution that was suggested, along with rapid response (undiluted) doses of Nutri-Drench, and a raw/unfiltered apple cider vinegar/water solution.

I have been hesitant to give her antibiotics (primarily because I don't know what I'm doing and don't want to cause more harm). I was also reading that throwing too many solutions at the problem simultaneously may complicate things.

The chickens had been in the coop/run and not free ranging for a few weeks prior to this, so it seems unlikely that she ate something that could have been poisonous. We give them fresh fruit and vegetables, but I always check to be sure that they are chicken-friendly foods. And the chickens don't eat from a compost pile.

I was going to try the Vitamin E suggestion, but I read that it should be consumed with Selenium to be effective.

Yesterday I noticed that her eyes seemed much redder than usual, somewhat bloodshot. I started searching on these forums and there was a post that had similar symptoms - and the situation was resolved with Corid. So we're now trying that.

She's also still on the dewormer.

She seemed to perk up a little bit yesterday (she raised her head a bit, was interested in the feed we were handfeeding her, and her leg tremors stopped). She was still lying down and not walking. She's sleeping a lot during the day, but I was thinking that could be a good thing - as she's giving her body time to heal. She's pooping and her comb is still a bright red.

So for now she's on dewormer, concentrated Nutri-Drench, and Corid.

I read that oregano oil is an alternative to antibiotics that could work wonders. That was going to be the next thing I try. But in order to give her the oregano oil, it needs to be diluted in water. And when the chickens are on Corid, that is supposed to be their sole source of water. Ugg!

I have spent several hours searching forums and websites reading about chicken ailments and diseases, and I still don't really know what's going on with her.

I attached 3 pics - the first 2 are from yesterday afternoon. The 3rd one (with the green feed scoop) is from this morning.

If you have any thoughts on the priority of what I should tackle next, please let me know! Thank you so much for all of your advice!

 

[yellowbttrflies]

Thank you for asking about her! I gave her the electrolyte solution that was suggested, along with rapid response (undiluted) doses of Nutri-Drench, and a raw/unfiltered apple cider vinegar/water solution.

I have been hesitant to give her antibiotics (primarily because I don't know what I'm doing and don't want to cause more harm). I was also reading that throwing too many solutions at the problem simultaneously may complicate things.

The chickens had been in the coop/run and not free ranging for a few weeks prior to this, so it seems unlikely that she ate something that could have been poisonous. We give them fresh fruit and vegetables, but I always check to be sure that they are chicken-friendly foods. And the chickens don't eat from a compost pile.

I was going to try the Vitamin E suggestion, but I read that it should be consumed with Selenium to be effective.

Yesterday I noticed that her eyes seemed much redder than usual, somewhat bloodshot. I started searching on these forums and there was a post that had similar symptoms - and the situation was resolved with Corid. So we're now trying that.

She's also still on the dewormer.

She seemed to perk up a little bit yesterday (she raised her head a bit, was interested in the feed we were handfeeding her, and her leg tremors stopped). She was still lying down and not walking. She's sleeping a lot during the day, but I was thinking that could be a good thing - as she's giving her body time to heal. She's pooping and her comb is still a bright red.

So for now she's on dewormer, concentrated Nutri-Drench, and Corid.

I read that oregano oil is an alternative to antibiotics that could work wonders. That was going to be the next thing I try. But in order to give her the oregano oil, it needs to be diluted in water. And when the chickens are on Corid, that is supposed to be their sole source of water. Ugg!

I have spent several hours searching forums and websites reading about chicken ailments and diseases, and I still don't really know what's going on with her.

I attached 3 pics - the first 2 are from yesterday afternoon. The 3rd one (with the green feed scoop) is from this morning.

If you have any thoughts on the priority of what I should tackle next, please let me know! Thank you so much for all of your advice!

And here's a photo of her in better times. She's such a sweet and beautiful chicken.

 

[azygous]

From those photos, your hen is very sick. I suspect she has something serious going on that all of the homeopathic or antibiotic remedies won't affect. But if she were mine, I would try an antibiotic if only to satisfy myself that I've tried a treatment that might work unless there's a virus and/or cancer tumors behind it. https://www.kvsupply.com/item/aqua-mox-250mg-capsules-100-count/P06184/

You can probably find something similar at Petsmart.

 

[yellowbttrflies]

From those photos, your hen is very sick. I suspect she has something serious going on that all of the homeopathic or antibiotic remedies won't affect. But if she were mine, I would try an antibiotic if only to satisfy myself that I've tried a treatment that might work unless there's a virus and/or cancer tumors behind it. https://www.kvsupply.com/item/aqua-mox-250mg-capsules-100-count/P06184/

You can probably find something similar at Petsmart.

Thank you for your insights - and all of your previous advice as well.

A few questions:

(1) Do you think that I can use the amoxicillin in addition to the dewormer and Corid? I don't know if the dewormer and Corid are helping, but it seems like I should continue the course of the treatment, rather than stopping and starting.

(2) I'll check local pet stores today so that I can start administering the amoxicillin right away. Do you have any info on dosage? I found this post from a few years ago that indicates 125mg/kg twice a day or 100mg/kg three times a day. Does that seem right? https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/amoxicillin-and-chickens.847924/post-12620621

(3) I've also seen lists of possible antibiotics to use on chickens. Amoxicillin, Baytril, Metronidazole, Aureomycin (chlortetracycline), Terramycin (oxytetracycline), Gallimycin (erythromycin), Duravet, etc. Does it matter which one I choose?

(4) And if I use human antibiotic pills, can I give it to crushed in a tiny bit of water and administered via a syringe? Or is it something that needs to be diluted in a much larger quantity of water? If it's the latter, I'm concerned about her getting enough of the medicine for it to be effective.

It's crazy - on Saturday she was fine. On Sunday she was lying on the ground. I don't know much about tumors or other issues that may affect chickens, but I would think that it would come on more gradually. Maybe? I'm so stumped as to what is happening with her.

Sorry for so many questions! I want to be sure that I'm doing the right thing.

 

[KaseySnow]

I'm glad the Corid seems to be helping some, but yeah, she still looks pretty badly off. Has she laid an egg recently? You said she didn't feel eggbound, but some other reproductive issue could be possible too.

I hope she pulls through, but if she doesn't, I would send her to your state veterinary lab for a necropsy. You might want to look up where that is and the timeline for shipping just in case as the window is pretty short. The lab could tell you definitively what happened to her and help you know whether or not there is a disease in your flock that you need to protect against.